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Gord, How about a road trip?? You driving with Nick, Jim, Claire & Rishi in the back, touring the sights and sounds of Stennie, Airdrie & Kirkcaldy. I’d pay to watch that!!
If I started in Kirkcaldy and sent Nick and Rishi in to the Chip shop for 3 Puddin Suppers,a white Puddin on a Roll,a Red Puddin wi gravy and the Lassie behind the counter asks if Rishi wants a Black puddin they wouldn’t get out alive,Claire wouldn’t understand a word of the Fife accent and would think a half loaf was just that!I’d send Jim in to the bakers and he’d ask for a couple of Baps and he’d get nutted so we wouldn’t make it West, Oasis.
What are the C4 viewing figures? Are they going down? And how do they compare with RUK and ATR?
I agree with you Eddie, I myself prefer seeing horses in the paddock to "cubbyhole chat". But with so little time between races these days (two (or more) meetings) is there really time for a live feed from paddock-side anymore? May be they think it best to analyse from the cubbyhole where it’s easier to segway from one meeting to the next?
Doubt whether viewing horses in the paddock is that interesting to the non-racing/non-horsey brigade. When going racing I hear it said many-a-time by once a year racegoers "one horse looks exactly like another". And when you try and point out a "well muscled two year old who knows his job – from a green, weak newcomer… They still can’t see the difference/got no interest. Therefore, they’d probably prefer the light-hearted box "banter" to paddock-side posturing.
If you really think "boring pundits, the vast majority who, know less than their viewers", then you’re either naive Eddie, or judging different "presenters" in fields they’re not experts in… Micky Fitz doesn’t know much about form analysis/tipping, but he’s in there primarily for a jockey’s eye view, not a form expert. Nick, Rishi, Clare, Alice and Emma are good "front men/women wing men/women" (well may be not the latter) who know a bit about "horses", where as Tanya is the betting "expert". Only McGrath and Cunningham are form gurus. Good to see Richard Hoiles in last week’s show too, knows a lot more about the game than a commentator’s job suggests.
Race analysis (both before and after the race) has improved enormously. ie How pace/stamina/speed/prominent/held up makes a difference to the outcome. Punters can learn a lot more from this new team than the old one. So worth sitting through pieces I don’t like.
Francome often used to go off on a tangent, where nothing he said had any basis in reality of what actually happened in a race, indeed imo sometimes the complete opposite of what happened. And McGrath for some reason never seemed to contradict. I often thought punters were put away by the old C4 Team.
The C4 viewing figures were reported down in October but they have no relevance compared to ATR & RUK.
I find it amazing how many thousands of once a year racegoers you seem to see at the races each year who comment to you "that one horse looks like another" (I say that myself) and that broadcasting of racing should be based on that.
The reference to pundits was regarding the ones on RUK as you can see from my post. You doubt whether viewing horses in the paddock and going to post would be that interesting to non horsey/non racing people but will people who think that really be watching racing anyway?
In any event it seems RUK shares your view even for racing aficionados as they rarely show them in the paddock and going to post even when only covering one meeting.
As viewing figures are apparently down, where is the evidence that the current formula appeals to non racing geeks?
I find the cubbyhole chat incredibly boring when compared to seeing horses in the paddock and going to post
and fail to see why you would expect non racing fans to be attracted by it.
Having said that, RUK
is little better, preferring, chat, replays etc the vast majority of the time to showing the horses when they should be leading the way in the coverage of horse racing for horse racing fans.
As a viewer I’ve no interest in listening to
boring pundits
, the vast majority who, know less than their viewers.
The reference to pundits was regarding the ones on RUK as you can see from my post.
What I could "see from your post" Eddie was… Before any mention of "RUK pundits", you found "cubbyhole chat" of the Channel 4 team
"incredibly boring"
. Then,
after the RUK paragraph
you go back to writing about
"boring pundits"
. Forgive me for thinking these "incredibly boring" Channel 4 presenters were included in the "boring pundits" you mention in… "the vast majority who, know less than their viewers".
When are "incredibly boring" pundits not "boring pundits"?
It would seem, when mentioned in the same post by Eddie.Value Is EverythingI love those
boring pundits
Ginge because they give me a pointer of what horses
NOT
to back. The only one I really listen to is Graham Cunningham, he does knows his horses.
Tanya Stevenson has had a regular job pin pointing winners for punters in the Racecard at Newmarket races for at least the last 5/6 years, my heart sinks when I notice she has tipped up one of my fancies and more often than not it loses.
Punters don’t need
Pundits
they need to LOOK at the horses in the paddock and going to post…something the
boring pundits
(yawn
) never give us enough time to do.I would be happy to be given an option to press a Red Button to turn them off and just watch the horses in silence.
JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...There certainly is too much booth-based discussion, with seemingly endless replays and analysis etc.
I’m surprised Channel 4 haven’t taken the criticism of this on board. They have amended some of the other aspects of the coverage but seem unwilling to include more shots of the horses before the races.
They are obviously determined to continue with the showing of fingers pressing the buttons on the touch-screen desk.
I wouldn’t mind but sometimes people like Nick Luck have to press it twice before anything happens, adding to the bumbling and annoying aspect of this.
References have been made to the lack of fun about the programmes now, particularly the Morning Line.
At least when Tommo was on, it was entertaining and amusing, even though he added considerably to the cringeworthy cheesiness of it. At least it was guaranteed to cheer you up while you were pulling your hair out.
In the ‘old days’ for the most part Francome and McGrath talked over the pictures. Why did this have to change? I can’t see any benefit to actually seeing the likes of Cunningham & Co. Things are not going to improve until the producers realise it is the horses and not the pundits who are the stars of the show.
In the ‘old days’ for the most part Francome and McGrath talked over the pictures. Why did this have to change? I can’t see any benefit to actually seeing the likes of Cunningham & Co. Things are not going to improve until the producers realise it is the horses and not the pundits who are the stars of the show.
This is what occurred on BBC, where much of the same team as on C4 now were involved. Can you remember Clare Balding running furiously around the paddock interviewing every connection under the sun at the expense of showing the horses.
Prior to a race it was they were purposely trying to preview the race without actually showing a horse for as long as possible particularly the first race when every Tom, Dick and Harry had to be introduced to viewers at home. Who can forget Jim McGrath doing his bit stood next to that battered old pair of bins that he never used.
Years ago, I had often thought that the BBC struggled to compete with Channel 4 for it’s racing coverage, especially with Willie Carson cackling away. But it seems Channel 4 managed to get rid of that competition, and then replaced it’s tried and trusted format with the very same people it had put out of business.
Who in their right mind would replace a winning team with parts of the one that couldn’t compete with it in the first place?
Claire Balding seems to be flavour of the month after her Olympics presentation, but seriously she’s everywhere, and I’m tired of seeing her on tv full stop, let alone interviewing every tom, dick and harry, instead of focusing on the horses. She is irritating.
Rishi Persad is an affable sports presenter in general, but to condense him onto a racing presenter doesn’t work. He’s very out of place in this field for me.
Mick Fitzgerald, as knowledgable as he is, is not presenter material, awful booming voice and the accent is difficult at times. His tipping only stretches as far as the Henderson stable, so why have a biased presenter?
Nick Luck and Graham Cunningham, boring as hell, and Jim McGrath looks so uncomfortable, it’s like he knows how unpopular and boring the whole thing has become. Emma Spencer? Why? Is it supposed to be glamour?
As for the adverts…well……
Needless to say I spend my Saturday afternoons in betting shops, rather than the comfort of my own living room….talk about the whole thing going full circle. There was a time I would rather not go to a bookies for many reasons, and stay at home to enjoy the covergae from C4, but now all I get to see is the racing and see the horses going to post….and some coloueful characters obviously!
Channel 4 had the winning team and the format only needed slight adjustment….it’s a shame it will never be seen again.Years ago, I had often thought that the BBC struggled to compete with Channel 4 for it’s racing coverage, especially with Willie Carson cackling away. But it seems Channel 4 managed to get rid of that competition, and then replaced it’s tried and trusted format with the very same people it had put out of business.
Who in their right mind would replace a winning team with parts of the one that couldn’t compete with it in the first place?
Claire Balding seems to be flavour of the month after her Olympics presentation, but seriously she’s everywhere, and I’m tired of seeing her on tv full stop, let alone interviewing every tom, dick and harry, instead of focusing on the horses. She is irritating.
Rishi Persad is an affable sports presenter in general, but to condense him onto a racing presenter doesn’t work. He’s very out of place in this field for me.
Mick Fitzgerald, as knowledgable as he is, is not presenter material, awful booming voice and the accent is difficult at times. His tipping only stretches as far as the Henderson stable, so why have a biased presenter?
Nick Luck and Graham Cunningham, boring as hell, and Jim McGrath looks so uncomfortable, it’s like he knows how unpopular and boring the whole thing has become. Emma Spencer? Why? Is it supposed to be glamour?
As for the adverts…well……
Needless to say I spend my Saturday afternoons in betting shops, rather than the comfort of my own living room….talk about the whole thing going full circle. There was a time I would rather not go to a bookies for many reasons, and stay at home to enjoy the covergae from C4, but now all I get to see is the racing and see the horses going to post….and some coloueful characters obviously!
Channel 4 had the winning team and the format only needed slight adjustment….it’s a shame it will never be seen again.Spot on Harvey I agree totally
Anyone presenting would be better than the drivel we have had this evening from Oli Bell on RUK.
Anyone presenting would be better than the drivel we have had this evening from Oli Bell on RUK.
Surely nothing can compete with the tortuous combination of McNae and Willoughby?
Oli Bell appeared on RUK many years ago and then left to work abroad, unfortunately he came back….
As for McNae and Willoughby oh yeah torture is the word, every time I see James willoughby I want to slap his arrogant and self obsessed face.
Oli Bell appeared on RUK many years ago and then left to work abroad, unfortunately he came back….
As for McNae and Willoughby oh yeah torture is the word, every time I see James willoughby I want to slap his arrogant and self obsessed face.
What is the evidence Willow is "self obsessed"?
Ah yes, gave up a very well paid job to spend more time with his son. Some people are all self, self, self!
Value Is EverythingOli Bell appeared on RUK many years ago and then left to work abroad, unfortunately he came back….
As for McNae and Willoughby oh yeah torture is the word, every time I see James willoughby I want to slap his arrogant and self obsessed face.
What is the evidence Willow is "self obsessed"?
Ah yes, gave up a very well paid job to spend more time with his son. Some people are all self, self, self!
Willoughby doesn’t add anything to the gig for me. I don’t have RUK anymore and I don’t miss his views one bit.
Asking Phil to provide "evidence" – not quite sure where you are going there GT? Have you evidence that he gave up a job that was "very well paid"?
Anyway back on topic the overiding theme from this thread is we would like a more fun packed programme with greater focus/views of the horses. Anyone from CH4 reading this forum…with some influence?
I look at the role of Mick Fitz. He’s not a form analyst who should be talking pounds and lengths with Jimbo and GC. His role should be to review the race, with focus on what the winning jock & horse have done to get their head in front. He should be able to talk us through the race from his experiences in the saddle. I don’t see much of this angle though.
Oli Bell appeared on RUK many years ago and then left to work abroad, unfortunately he came back….
As for McNae and Willoughby oh yeah torture is the word, every time I see James willoughby I want to slap his arrogant and self obsessed face.
What is the evidence Willow is "self obsessed"?
Ah yes, gave up a very well paid job to spend more time with his son. Some people are all self, self, self!
Did he actually resign? It appears as if has ‘given up’ on several occasions and then just returns a few weeks later.
Oli Bell appeared on RUK many years ago and then left to work abroad, unfortunately he came back….
As for McNae and Willoughby oh yeah torture is the word, every time I see James willoughby I want to slap his arrogant and self obsessed face.
What is the evidence Willow is "self obsessed"?
Ah yes, gave up a very well paid job to spend more time with his son. Some people are all self, self, self!
Did he actually resign? It appears as if has ‘given up’ on several occasions and then just returns a few weeks later.
Resigned from being Chief Correspondent for the Racing Post Stilvi. Don’t get the paper now, suspect any role he may still have is a lesser one. Also has a smaller part to play on Racing UK to what he once had. Not suprising they want him to continue in some capacity. Although James can talk sh.. at times (like all of us) can come up with good stuff and one of the leading exponents of Time.
Value Is EverythingPersonally speaking I would rather
watch the whole racing in silence.
This is getting quite a lot easier for
me
Some information can be put up on the
screen, but ear shots of horses breathing
and galloping down would be tremendous.
Allow the starter’s shouts to be heardObviously there must be a commentary
during the race, but back to silence
after the finish. And no jockey’s views
before or after on pain of death of
Channel four.I suppose what I am saying in plain
english is cut the crap !
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