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Aidan, he’s not a ballydoyle runner so of course he’s underestimated ;)
His performances have been slated on this board regularly.
Dewhurst: Horatio should have won, but didn’t
Guineas: Finished in front of a load of slowboats
Derby: Crap race, non stayer, lucky.
I think alot of the doubting of SP comes from the fact many on here are adamant he is a 130 horse already. The dismissal of Pride on this thread who has numerous performances superior to any of SP’s is a prime example of this. Even after the Arc many on here brought the race back to SP suggesting he "would have won it" etc etc.
Yes SP could be very good indeed but he is the one that has to prove it, not the likes of Pride and HR etc.
Where is the pace going to come from in the Champion? Olympian Odyssey is a possibility, I suppose, but if he doesn’t make it, who will? It looks to me like Hurricane Run might end up doing the job.
Sir percys derby is rated low because of the way it was run and the way it was won. I have never been a massive sir percy fan but there is no doubting that he has a better turn of foot than anything in this field and will see out the trip to perfection.<br>The arc was run perfectly to suit pride, so i wont acccept any rubbish that she was unlucky, i think rail link would have pulled out more to hold her. However, before the race you must have realised that in a slowly run event that pride would be there or thereabouts. This years arc was a very poor arc for a largely very poor season. Hurricane was unlucky in the arc but they are going to have to go like the hammers of hell for the first mile for him to figure in the champion stakes, as he has no turn of foot at slow gallops. <br>If you go by ratings sir percy has something to find but if you go by what was clearly visible in the derby and the guineas, he is crying out for 1m2f and has all the skills for it.<br>Out of the rest i would probably pick pride to most suited to conditions but i dont think she can match the burst of speed that sir percy will be able to muster if back to his derby form. The only thing that will beat sir percy is a flop, if hes his usual self he’ll not be beaten by this lot.<br>Also, david junior (who i personally like as a horse) has not done a great deal before or since last years champion to suggest that he is any sort of world beater. O’brien warned people on the day of the champion last year not to back oratorio as he had given a bad scope and was not at his best, he wasnt far away in 4th. Alkaased went on to win the japan cup over 1m4f. Was it a great race, not really.<br>Was the arc this year a great race, not really. "But pride had to come from behind?" Is’nt that what she does? She is a horse who is arguably best at 1m2-slow1m4f. She always comes from behind.
I’m not saying that pride doesnt deserve to be there, and in truth if sir percy goes wrong she will probably win but she is hoping (like evreything else in the field) that the real sir percy doesnt show up.
For anyone who is contemplating betting on anything else in the champion, watch the guineas and the derby replays and bear in mind that sir percy will be running at the distance halfway between the two (the distance he’s actually bred for) on ground that he’ll love.
When a horse has this good a chance why bet on anything else?
there is no doubting that he has a better turn of foot than anything in this field and will see out the trip to perfection.
It is lines like this!!! There is every chance Pride has a superior turn of foot, she will see the trip out equally as well as SP as will Hurricane Run. So SP can only lose if he runs below form…what thats 121-123??
Mate, i like to use ratings too on occasion, but that rating is for a 1m4f race, we havent yet seen sir percy at 1m2f.
Its possible that pride does have a super turn of foot and that she has never thrown it in in her whole career, but has just been savingit for the 2006 champion stakes. realistically though, i think that scenario is unlikely somehow.:biggrin:
Hurricane run will almost certainly not see out the trip aswell as sir percy and pride, he is an out and out traveller who ideally probably wants further than 1m4f, not shorter, he struggles in slowly run 1m4f races, in a competetive 1m2f race he has little chance. Hurricane (like bago) has never been known for having any sort of turn of foot in anything less than a fast 1m4f race.
If pride, or anything else (araafa aside) has ever shown a better turn of foot than sir percy did in the derby, please point out when that was because ive never seen it.
I think it all comes down to the way you see what a horse is doing in a race, im sure you were surprised when oratorio beat motivator both times last year. Blind betting sometimes works if the ratings are reflective of what is likely to come, but in this case they are not, and im hoping that Sir P. will prove that a finishing position, a time and a rating are not always gospel, because there is such a thing as context. Sir percys derby rating is correct for his 1m4f performance, but it was won in the stylke of a 1m2f horse, you might disagree and then again you might pay for it….we shall see.
Aidan, i’m with bully here, I can’t see how you can say that pride has a better turn of foot than SP. She’s a 10-12f horse SP is a miler who stays further. She has to give weight to SP as well and as is being shown, the longer the year goes on the more of a difference that weight allowance makes.
Like I said earlier in this thread, i’d be more concerned about notnowcato.
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<br> Bulwark/Aragorn
You both appear to be ignoring the fact that Pride has shown her turn of foot over this distance, and against better horses!
She has not however beaten a better 1m2f horse than Sir Percy at 1m2f as i am quite confident you will find out on saturday. Other than that though she has beaten some good horses in her day and thats why i think she will more likely than not be the horse to take the runners up spot. If you have backed her to beat Sir Percy then good luck as i suspect you are going to need it.;)
SP is a miler despite never winning a race over a mile?
No, he’s a top class 10f horse, despite having never run in a 10f race.
C’mon Gareth, keep up! :biggrin:
Steve
Maraahel has made big steps on the turf this year. Unlucky to have not won the Juddmonte, and I think he can make further improvement, especially with form on a softer surface. I agree about the lack of pace, which is why I think we’ll be seeing Hurricane Run go to the front very early.
jackane24-It seems that you were a member of sites like ‘gambling.co.uk’ and others as far back as May 03 :o
Also others ,where you seem to be an expert on football-as well as horse racing and other sports-Fair play to you’kid’ ;)
Quote: from davidjohnson on 8:47 am on Oct. 13, 2006[br]What piece of form suggests that Maarahel is a better horse this year than last?
Stop being so pedantic. It was a sweeping statement and didn’t need you picking the young lad up for it.
Although the RPR don’t quite agree – not sure about the Halifax mob – I think his third in this race 12 months ago is probably his best form, closely followed by last season’s Juddmonte third.
Quote: from jilly on 12:01 am on Oct. 13, 2006[br]jackane24-It seems that you were a member of sites like ‘gambling.co.uk’ and others as far back as May 03 :o
Also others ,where you seem to be an expert on football-as well as horse racing and other sports-Fair play to you’kid’ ;) <br>
Of what relevance is this contribution?
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