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With Honeysuckle and BDD going for the Mare’s hurdle, will this be a year when the Champion Hurdler wasn’t actually the Champion Hurdler?
Two strong contenders not running in the Champion Hurdle. And what do some people in racing say? Let’s have a fifth day of Cheltenham!
No. The Champion Hurdler will win The Champion Hurdle.
Benie Des Dieux or Honeysuckle will probably win The Mares Hurdle.
That was easy Befair.
It already happened with Annie Power. Probably would have also been the case with Dawn Run and Flakey Dove. In fairness, BDD is the best staying hurdler in France and Ireland so it’s just the Stayers’ Hurdle being ruined this year as with Quevega.
The mares hurdle is a very good idea and would be great at Cheltenham’s Mares’ meeting in April. But hosting it at the festival is utterly stupid.
no. There both in the race they have the best chance of winning
A Champion Hurdle contender running in a lesser contest is still a Champion Hurdle contender.
There needs to be a mares programme, its not ruining any race atall, these races are competitive at the current state, so its not taking away from anything..
Just because a horse would have ran in a particular race if another didnt exist doesnt mean they should be, that would just be circumstantial
What would happen to all the horses in the mares novice, the mares, the ryanair and the jlt that are not good enough at the lesser/further trip of the cc/ch/stayees etc etc, they just shouldnt be at cheltenham? The effect on owners would be a massive negative as a whole to the sport given how chelt is “everything”
This conversation comes up with cheltenham every year but never royal ascot
Its not going back,
Get over it
“The stayers being ruined”
There needs to be a mares programme
Does it NEED to dilute fields at the Cheltenham Festival? What is wrong with having the mares programme culminating at the mares meeting? Would it not be better to have the best two milers, the best stayers and the best mares competing against each other? Instead, you have the Mares Hurdle diluting the Champion Hurdle (Honeysuckle) and the Champion Hurdle diluting the Mares Hurdle (Epatante).
its not ruining any race atall
It is drawing championship contenders away from one another. It is akin to hosting the French Open and Wimbledon concurrently. It is undermining the solitary opportunity for champions to be crowned in our sport. If not ruined then certainly spoiling.
these races are competitive at the current state
They would be even more competitive were they not being swerved by major contenders.
so its not taking away from anything
Yes it is.
Just because a horse would have ran in a particular race if another didnt exist doesnt mean they should be, that would just be circumstantial
It is demonstrable given the fact that the Irish Champion Hurdler and the Irish Champion Stayer are not competing in the direct counterparts.
What would happen to all the horses in the mares novice, the mares, the ryanair and the jlt that are not good enough at the lesser/further trip of the cc/ch/stayees etc etc, they just shouldnt be at cheltenham?
If they are not good enough to compete in a championship event then they can compete in a handicap. Besides, the notion that championship class National Hunt horses are profoundly affected by half a furlong is an unconvincing one. Late last year, I compiled a list of every single horse who placed in the first three in all weight for age renewals Ascot Chase, Ascot Hurdle, Hatton’s Grace, Punchestown Chase, Aintree Hurdle and Melling Chase since the 1983/84 season. All of them. Every single one. I even threw in placed horses from the Black and White as well as the Cleeve Hurdle from when it was a twenty furlong race.
Among those 422 horses, you will not find one (and this is an open challenge) who is both championship standard and is so much better at twenty furlongs that they would be at a distinct disadvantage over two or three miles. (Cyrname could have been the solitary exception but he wouldn’t compete in a Ryanair in any case). The best horses at twenty furlongs will either have the pace for a Champion Hurdle, the stamina for a Stayers Hurdle or both.
The effect on owners would be a massive negative as a whole to the sport given how chelt is “everything”
The Cheltenham Festival was absolutely fine without the Ryanair or the Mares’ Hurdle.
This conversation comes up with cheltenham every year but never royal ascot
Royal Ascot doesn’t host any de-facto championship races.
Its not going back
Probably not. But that is not a good reason to withhold ones opinion.
Get over it
This phrase has never been a convincing argument. Nor has it ever been used, to the best of my knowledge, by an intelligent adult.
Going back to the original question, the obvious answer is no, as they’re both missing The Champion Hurdle, and many would argue that they’re in the right race now.
Befair, do you really need this answered?
The right race for who?
Benie Des Dieux is the only credible threat to Paisley Park so unless they both meet in the Punchestown Stayers (which is unlikely and both will be over the top in any case) then we are no closer to determining who is the best staying hurdler.
Honeysuckle is arguably facing a stronger opponent in the Mares than in the weakest Champion Hurdle in memory. And for what? To eschew the prestige of a Champion Hurdle for the sake of winning a restricted race.
Honeysuckle definitely has the pace for a Champion and BdB easily stays the three miles. Neither would be out of place in the opposite races either. So why is it a good thing that two of the Festival’s star attractions are competing in a novelty contest instead of the Championship races where they would be strong contenders?
Given that both of the mares in question were favourites for the Champion Hurdle at some point this year, the answer is far from an obvious no.
It must be a unique circumstance when, not just one, but the two probable favourites actually run in a lesser race.
Among those 422 horses, you will not find one (and this is an open challenge) who is both championship standard and is so much better at twenty furlongs that they would be at a distinct disadvantage over two or three miles
I think that Cue Card would be a typical Ryanair horse who should have won a (rather weak) Gold Cup with a different jockey aboard. The way he was traveling in the 2016 Gold Cup makes me think that he would have won it, with 2m5f still his optimum trip. Nevertheless you’re right about the remaining 441 horses.
The Cheltenham Festival was absolutely fine without the Ryanair or the Mares’ Hurdle.
Quevega could have gone either way in my opinion (CH or Stayers). Quite sure that she would have won at least one or two Stayers, if Big Bucks hadn’t been around.
What do you think, BH?
Oh, yes and I don’t care much about the Ryanair winners. The only exception being Imperial Commander…
I think that Cue Card would be a typical Ryanair horse who should have won a (rather weak) Gold Cup with a different jockey aboard. The way he was traveling in the 2016 Gold Cup makes me think that he would have won it, with 2m5f still his optimum trip.
I think Cue Card was a ‘fast stayer’. He absolutely got three miles, including on bottomless ground as he matured, and would have gone very close in that Gold Cup. I think horses of his class don’t really have specific optimum trips and have ranges which can be quite broad. For me, his best efforts were over three miles but he was more or less equally effective over twenty furlongs.
Quevega could have gone either way in my opinion (CH or Stayers). Quite sure that she would have won at least one or two Stayers, if Big Bucks hadn’t been around.
Not sure she was totally effective at two miles (high class rather than top class) going off her run in the Punchestown Champion but she patently got the three. May have struggled in 2009 and 2011 (Punchestowns and Grands Crus) but had the measure of Time For Rupert and Voler La Vedette. Should have been given her chance in 2013 when Mullins was represented by So Young and Zaidpour. Given that she was tuned to the second for her Cheltenham runs, she may well have given Big Buck’s a race but we can only speculate because it never happened. And even if she was comfortably beaten, surely there’s more honour in being admirably consistent against the best than turning up to win a minor prize.
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