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WD Altior backers and especially Jasolong, he came up the hill like a true champ and deserved his win. Pity ol’ giraffe legs hit the deck as he might have made a fight of it but they’re to be jumped I suppose. Glad he and Patrick are OK.
To say that he would have said that however he was travelling is a rather stupid comment Ginger – yes agree it was too far out to say what could have happened but that goes both ways and what we do know about Douvan is that (barring last year’s race) he has never been a weak finisher in a race.
Douvan has never been a good jumper; leggy and awkward. Being capable of some good jumps doesn’t make a horse a good jumper.
Can’t think of another horse at that level who could do what Altior did. Never travelling, hated the ground, drifted to 8 on Betfair, and comes back to win in style. A perfect example of real class making the difference.
People are still obsessed with the fact that Douvan beat Sizing John 4 times over fences when racing over 2m.
Don’t believe a word Patrick Mullins is saying. How many times was a CC won before the first ditch and why did he fall at all, if he was traveling so good.
The only other horse more impressive from 2 out than Altior, has to be Summerville Boy. That one made up a lot more ground and recovered after hitting the last as well.
Though in a different discipline.Steep – never been a good jumper???? I’d give you at times he has an unconventional jumping technique but you don’t win 8 G1 NH races and 14 of your 17 total races and only fall once (having never looked like falling prior to that) by not being a good jumper.
Fully agree that he outclassed those rivals left standing (but then we kinda already knew that would happen going into the race based on all known form) however, the big question that everybody was hoping would get answered (in my mind) simply didn’t.
Just watched the reply on RUK and it is so freaky how similar his fall was to that of Moscow Flyer’s at the exact same fence in 2004 – the whole Douvan/Altior thing also shares similarities to the Moscow Flyer/Azertyuiop debate at that time as well.
Was there today and that surge up the hill was as thrilling as anything I’ve seen in near enough 30 visits. I believe you just get a better feel for these things on the course
It was great to see douvan travelling so well but the nonsense from the jockey and some punters that “he would have won” is bizarre. It was way too far out to tell.
Douvan was absolutely tanking at the time – just my 2 cents – was very very impressed with him up to then just took off too far . Not saying would have won but at that stage look like the winner to me 100 % and I didn’t back him so.
Steep – never been a good jumper???? I’d give you at times he has an unconventional jumping technique but you don’t win 8 G1 NH races and 14 of your 17 total races and only fall once (having never looked like falling prior to that) by not being a good jumper.
He has a fair smattering of ‘not fluents’ and ‘mistakes’ in his form and that was in his long string of easy races = the1/14s, 2/13s, 2/11s. When he runs in pressure races, he’ll always be in danger of doing what he did today (Am not aftertiming here; posted this on the Douvan thread last year).
He was lousy and inconsistent in the Queen Mother Champion Chase last year. Some will blame the injury but he was still throwing enormous and exaggerated jumps quite late in the race. He just cannot organise himself consistently.
He has a fair smattering of ‘not fluents’ and ‘mistakes’ in his form and that was in his long string of easy races = the1/14s, 2/13s, 2/11s. When he runs in pressure races, he’ll always be in danger of doing what he did today (Am not aftertiming here; posted this on the Douvan thread last year).
He was lousy and inconsistent in the Queen Mother Champion Chase last year. Some will blame the injury but he was still throwing enormous and exaggerated jumps quite late in the race. He just cannot organise himself consistently.
Fully agree with that, Joe.
People also seem to forget that we had proper Champion Chase winners in the past two decades who were real class animals. Take Viking Flagship for example, won two CCs, finished 2nd, 3rd and 5th on his other three runs. Ran some REAL fantastic races against the likes of Travado, Klairon Davis, Deep Sensation, Sound Man, Marthas Son and so on. Anyway, racing seemed a lot more competitive in the 90s and 00s, probably because there were fewer races and there was less talk. Less hype….
He had a fair amount of “jumped well” 17 starts and 1 race ending error, i dont care what the writeups say, that proves he jumps well.
You dont think a fractured pelvis caused any issue with his jumping last year in the CC? Really? Lol ….
I dare say connections of Douvan will be content, if not happy, that he fell when he did, assuming the horse is okay (he appeared to be moving very gingerly after). First run after a year off, in that sort of ground, you would hardly want the horse to have an overly hard race against the best horse in training up that hill. Instead, he’s got 2/3s of the way around, apparently feeling very well, and should be able to improve from this going forward.
You dont think a fractured pelvis caused any issue with his jumping last year in the CC? Really? Lol ….
Well, if you can tell me exactly at what point in the race the fracture occurred, you might be entitled to a LOL.
He threw a huge jump from almost outside the wings at the open ditch 4 out. Horses with a fractured pelvis do not do that, so I think it’s safe to assume he was injury-free at that point, yet his jumping before that had been bigtime scattergun hit and miss.
As I said earlier, far too many people interpret occasional spectacular jumps with a good jumper. The horse is over rated and always has been.
Joe, I think it’s a bit unfair to interpret his run last year like that. I agree you had been concerned about his jumping before then but you had said it was because he was too long, low and sloppy with insufficient bascule…all fair comments. Last year’s run wasn’t like that; he was never travelling and was throwing those ridiculous huge awkward miserable leaps from the start, which he had never done before and did not do today. I know it doesn’t make sense for a horse with a pelvic fracture to do that but maybe he was freaking out at the pain and trying to escape it somehow.
This year I thought he travelled and jumped well until the fall (although the moment he hit the deck the first thought that went through my head was “Joe said that would happen some day”). So you were right.
God I adore this horse. Panicked bigtime when Min got first run on him and he was stuck inside, Nico pulls him out and I went absolutely barmy as he picked up.
That and Samcro in the same day – Racing truly at its greatest.
Douvan was going very nicely and he may have gone close but it’s just like the Cue Card 2016 fall if not maybe even more of an unknown.
Agree he isn’t the greatest jumper Joe, put in a bad one over the last in the Arkle IIRC and been known to be guessy at some.
He is an exceptional hoss though (agree form isn’t great but his timefigures stack up) and I really do look forward to them meeting again sometime next year.As I said earlier, far too many people interpret occasional spectacular jumps with a good jumper. The horse is over rated and always has been.
Douvan may or may not be as good a jumper now as he was before the pelvis fracture, Joe. Unfair to judge him on last year – obviously something amiss from the start of the race. This time it was his first run for a long time and horses can be over-bold when fresh. Patrick seemed to be in two minds at the fence and possibly Ruby would’ve asked him for a long one. Jockey may have made a difference.
Overall though, in the past it hasn’t been “occasional spectacular jumps”, it’s been consistently spectacular; making lengths on his rivals. Yes, he’s also made a few errors, but generally makes ground at his fences and therefore Douvan’s jumping has been a great asset.
Yes, Timeform may have over-rated his form slightly, but he was (possibly still is) a top class racehorse. If not as they rated him – Timeform low 180’s – was certainly high 170’s.
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