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Nobody knows for sure – for what its worth, my opinion is that it is bollocks. I buy that horses run out of their physical comfort zone and are never physically the same again.
Ravens Pass must have had a "heart of stone"!
Nobody knows for sure – for what its worth, my opinion is that it is bollocks. I buy that horses run out of their physical comfort zone and are never physically the same again.
Ravens Pass must have had a "heart of stone"!
Some horses are like AP McCoy, some are like Stewart Downing
A good post and I honestly cannot
answer yes or no.
I do know that the horses that used to pull the barges alongside canals were known to jump into the canal when they had had enough, by the time the tack was removed they had drowned.That could be classed as having their hearts broken.
This was not reported in this way at the time in the trade press. So I will not name the horse.A top chaser was led out of his stable one morning and put his head down and bolted into a wall and killed himself.The post mortem revealed he had a brain tumour and the pain probably made him do this.
So horses hearts can be broken but would losing a race do this?I would think only think only the stable staff who knew the horse well could see if there was a change.If you go to back a certainty always buy a return ticket.
A brain tumour is nothing to do with the heart…
And anyway, if a horse is in pain he’ll do something to try and remedy the situation.
But (at least how I see it) neither is this thread talking about horses having physical "heart problems" CJ.
When a human has a "broken heart" they don’t need hospital treatment. The saying "broken heart" is a psycological thing.
Value Is EverythingWhy on earth not? Do we humans think we are so special, so completely unique in every way, that no other creature that has eveloved with us can share any of our traits?
Do we humans think we are so special, so completely unique in every way, that no other creature that has eveloved with us can share any of our traits?
Of course not Aji, but horses are not apes.
Value Is EverythingNot really sure here. I guess the could break the heart of another but their language is too different for us humans to understand.
http://imagicon.info/cat/10-3/icon_smile.gif
Do we humans think we are so special, so completely unique in every way, that no other creature that has eveloved with us can share any of our traits?
Of course not Aji, but horses are not apes.
No, but horses share 64% of their DNA with us.
You’re very sure of yourself for someone without, as far as I’m aware, a PhD in Zoological Ethology. I must say you’re being very pigheaded if not completely ignorant to the possibility that you might be at least partially wrong. Something very disappointing to see in someone with your admirably fastidious capacity.
No PhD BH, just experience in studying how racehorses run, I’m looking at what makes them happy almost every day. I’ve also talked to vets about racehorses. Not "pigheaded", I might be 100% wrong, it’s just my opinion, an opinion which you may not fully understand, so let me explain further:
I think you should look at the original question and post BH. If it had said "can horses be effected by certain things happening within a race"? Or, "are race-horses effected by happiness/boredom/sadness"? Or even "is it possible for racehorses to get deppressed"… Then I’d have said very definitely YES, YES and PROBABLY YES… As my first post pointed out when discussing front-runners:
"
Another time "broken hearts" come in to things are with front runners. Horses are pack animals, some natural leaders and some followers. Some need to dominate/race prominently. If taken on in front it can "break the horse’s heart"; or rather – don’t like being headed and sulk. Take a look at Carruthers. If allowed to lead or have a clear, unhindered sight of the front he runs a descent race and tries his damndest to remain there. However, if unable to take that prominent position (as Saturday) surrounded by rivals – he’ll give up
"…
ie The way a horse runs is definitely effected by their hapiness. Some like to lead and if they can’t lead they sulk. Now, some might class that as having its "heart broken", I don’t. Because as long as it’s not a reccurring theme then it will get over it. eg If Carruthers is NEVER (or for a long, long time) never allowed again to front-run/race prominently – then it’ll probably "break his heart" and effect temperament and so performance. However, that’s highly unlikely to happen. As long as Carruthers is given the opportunity to lead at home and in one of his next race/s – then he’ll be alright…
So I believe
NO ONE PARTICULAR PERFORMANCE
by (as the post question states) "one horse can break the heart of another".
What you seem to ask BH is CAN HORSES GET DEPRESSED? Or, can horses become withdrawn after prolonged abuse/neglected stimulus? I’d answer Yes to that question. An important part of training racehorses is keeping them happy. Some (like Wayward Prince today) like being in a small stable.
But the question that I am answering is about the human emotion of having one particular racehorse (in one particular race) "breaking the heart" of another racehorse. That my friend – I do NOT believe. Or to keep everyone happy should I say am 95% certain (I am banned from mentioning percentages)
. Had the question been about apes and not horses – then I could "believe" – hence my earlier answer.Hope that goes some way to explain my position more accurately, sorry for any confusion BH.
It’s only an opinion mate, lighten up.
Value Is EverythingHmm, if it were a question of intelligence I could see the ape angle, but I think we’re talking about emotion.
If you look at the 2011 World Hurdle Grand Crus looks freqently to his right at Big Bucks and might be thinking Huh who the hell is this and how am I not passing him!
Do we humans think we are so special, so completely unique in every way, that no other creature that has eveloved with us can share any of our traits?
Of course not Aji, but horses are not apes.
No, but horses share 64% of their DNA with us.
You’re very sure of yourself for someone without, as far as I’m aware, a PhD in Zoological Ethology. I must say you’re being very pigheaded if not completely ignorant to the possibility that you might be at least partially wrong. Something very disappointing to see in someone with your admirably fastidious capacity.
I wasn’t aware one had to have a PHD in something to form an opinion. Thankyou.
64% DNA is very different ….
If you look at the 2011 World Hurdle Grand Crus looks freqently to his right at Big Bucks and might be thinking Huh who the hell is this and how am I not passing him!
Palpable nonsense
No PhD BH, just experience in studying how racehorses run, I’m looking at what makes them happy almost every day. I’ve also talked to vets about racehorses. Not "pigheaded", I might be 100% wrong, it’s just my opinion, an opinion which you may not fully understand, so let me explain further:
I think you should look at the original question and post BH. If it had said "can horses be effected by certain things happening within a race"? Or, "are race-horses effected by happiness/boredom/sadness"? Or even "is it possible for racehorses to get deppressed"… Then I’d have said very definitely YES, YES and PROBABLY YES… As my first post pointed out when discussing front-runners:
"
Another time "broken hearts" come in to things are with front runners. Horses are pack animals, some natural leaders and some followers. Some need to dominate/race prominently. If taken on in front it can "break the horse’s heart"; or rather – don’t like being headed and sulk. Take a look at Carruthers. If allowed to lead or have a clear, unhindered sight of the front he runs a descent race and tries his damndest to remain there. However, if unable to take that prominent position (as Saturday) surrounded by rivals – he’ll give up
"…
ie The way a horse runs is definitely effected by their hapiness. Some like to lead and if they can’t lead they sulk. Now, some might class that as having its "heart broken", I don’t. Because as long as it’s not a reccurring theme then it will get over it. eg If Carruthers is NEVER (or for a long, long time) never allowed again to front-run/race prominently – then it’ll probably "break his heart" and effect temperament and so performance. However, that’s highly unlikely to happen. As long as Carruthers is given the opportunity to lead at home and in one of his next race/s – then he’ll be alright…
So I believe
NO ONE PARTICULAR PERFORMANCE
by (as the post question states) "one horse can break the heart of another".
What you seem to ask BH is CAN HORSES GET DEPRESSED? Or, can horses become withdrawn after prolonged abuse/neglected stimulus? I’d answer Yes to that question. An important part of training racehorses is keeping them happy. Some (like Wayward Prince today) like being in a small stable.
But the question that I am answering is about the human emotion of having one particular racehorse (in one particular race) "breaking the heart" of another racehorse. That my friend – I do NOT believe. Or to keep everyone happy should I say am 95% certain (I am banned from mentioning percentages)
. Had the question been about apes and not horses – then I could "believe" – hence my earlier answer.Hope that goes some way to explain my position more accurately, sorry for any confusion BH.
It’s only an opinion mate, lighten up.
Alright, don’t get your knickers in a bunch. It’s only an observation, chum.
You’re happy to accept that horses can get depressed and that depression can affect a horse’s performance. Yet you’re skeptical about the notion that a traumatic event can trigger a depression or at least an aversion to future battles. Why is it essential that the onset of an altered psyche has to be the result of a prolonged trauma rather than a single traumatic event? There have already been numerous equine examples suggested here but just to use another human example, neither Mike Tyson nor Donovan Ruddock were ever the same fighters after their epic battles. I’m not suggesting for one second that Punchestowns, Grands Crus, Canford Cliffs et alii are crying themselves to sleep on their straw beds ruing the name Big Bucks or Frankel. But I think it’s perfectly possible (not absolutely certain – more 85%) that a particularly tough battle so out of the ordinary can leave an indelible mark on a horse.
I highly respect your knowledge and your processes. It’s just that you are right about me being confused about you shunning this particular strand of thinking.
I wasn’t aware one had to have a PHD in something to form an opinion. Thankyou.
64% DNA is very different ….
It’s PhD, not PHD. You tit.
Can one horse ‘break the heart’ of another?
He or she certainly can if you listen to enough race commentaries by Richard Hoiles.
It’s one of his favourite phrases. Stewart Machin has also been known to use it (makes a change from the puns).
Gareth Topham is the king of this particular phrase now, a load of old cobblers it is too.
Sometime trainers pick an easy race to build confidence.Take what you will from that.
Another example from another sport.Billy Casper defeated Arnold Palmer in US Open championship 1966.Arnold was leading by 7 strokes with nine holes left.Casper got to tie Arnold and won the playoff the next day.Arnold never won another Major.Incidentally I went to the Olympic Club that year to watch Ben Hogan play.
. Had the question been about apes and not horses – then I could "believe" – hence my earlier answer.
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