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This is a little bugbear of mine. I’ve just heard yet another commentator talking about the "Epsom Derby" (The Queen went to the "Epsom Derby" on Saturday…".)
Okay, one can forgive somebody not especially interested in Horse Racing for making this error, but more and more people involved in the sport continue to make this mistake. Perhaps it’s too late to redress now after years of slovenly commentating. But it is the DERBY not the Epsom Derby.(There, got that moan off my chest
)This is a little bugbear of mine. I’ve just heard yet another commentator talking about the "Epsom Derby" (The Queen went to the "Epsom Derby" on Saturday…".)
Okay, one can forgive somebody not especially interested in Horse Racing for making this error, but more and more people involved in the sport continue to make this mistake. Perhaps it’s too late to redress now after years of slovenly commentating. But it is the DERBY not the Epsom Derby.(There, got that moan off my chest
)Don’t they mean The Derby ran at Epsom.
What’s the difference, it’s just another way to phrase it.
The difference is that, apart from substitute events held on the Summer course during the Great and Second World Wars, The Derby has been run at Epsom since 1780.
"The" is more than enough to describe it.
Given the advent of globalization, I think it has become necessary to make a distinction. I mean if you mention simply "The Derby" anywhere in the world apart from on this tiny island, confusion would abound in many an instance.
Even in the English language, the word "Derby" has been usurped by a lesser, more popular sport. To the extent that last Saturday, when I told a friend I would be watching the Derby, it elicited the response "eh?, the season’s over".
Granted, I’m under the age of 65 and I’m not patriotic in the slightest but still, this is an issue which fills me with consummate indifference.
I’m fully on the side of the O.P. If you don’t know where it is, chances are that you don’t even know what it is.
I could not give a flying f*** about any girly game followers or Johnny Foreigners getting confused either!
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysIt’s been called the Epsom Derby for as long as I can remember.
At least worldwide it has to distinguish it from other Derby’s ran all over the world.The proper name is the "Derby Stakes" not The Derby
Aren’t they called durbies everywhere else?
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysDoesn’t quite address the point being made…
but I suppose historically (talking 80-100+ years ago) you could understand why it would be called the Epsom Derby. So as not to get it confused with the then Ascot Derby a few weeks later, which is now the King Edward VII at Royal Ascot. I assume that race was re-named around the time of Edward VII’s reign in the 1900’s, or possibly after that in memory of him.
Maybe it’s stuck since then.
The original Poster is correct in many ways because the "Epsom Derby" is THE DERBY, the original race given the name when Lord Derby and Charles Bunbury sought to found a race and tossed a coin in order to choose which name would title it. All other "derbies" stem from this original usage. I can see why calling it the Epsom Derby would allow it to be differentiated by an international audience.
In theory all Derbies could be called Bunburys right now, but that does sound a little absurd!
But it is the DERBY not the Epsom Derby.
It’s the same case with The Open which an increasing number will insist calling The British Open
The Derby, The Open adds gravitas to these historic events – the original and genuine, all others are copies
Infact in official formbooks ( RP, Timeform etc) the definite article is omitted from race titles, and in the days before near-universal sponsorship of Pattern Races this resulted in pleasingly curt, dignified and warmly romantic names – Derby Stakes, Oaks Stakes, Coronation Cup, Diomed Stakes, Woodcote Stakes etc
This, of course, still applies at the unsponsored Royal Meeting e.g. Gold Cup – need one say more?
By the way, anyone know when and why (the) Great Surrey Stakes was abolished. It was a 5f Listed 2yo event that opened Derby Day for decades, and possibly centuries
In the US "the Derby" is shorthand for the Kentucky Derby. All other Derbies get a modifier – the Arkansas Derby, Santa Anita Derby, Japanese Derby, Home Run Derby, Roller derby, Soap Box Derby, Demolition derby, Epsom Derby.
Aren’t they called durbies everywhere else?
They’re still spelled the same, though. Some British pundits on American racing TV insist on saying "Kentucky Darby" even though American English doesn’t usually have the er-ar vowel shift (also found in Berkeley, Berkshire and Hertford).
I think this is a case of us Brits being a bit insular (as is our wont!). We’re all naturally feeling a bit patriotic and gung-ho this weekend but we have to accept that there are other Derbies in the world, run on courses other than Epsom, so it’s natural that it needs defining when being reported.
Could be worse – they might have said "The English Derby" or even "The British Derby"!! That would have given us something to whinge about!!
The race title does not have "Epsom" in it, that’s all there is to it.
It is of course pretty insignificant but nonetheless "Epsom Derby" is simply incorrect. Do people say "I’m running a horse in the Newmarket Cesarewitch or the Doncaster Park Hill or the York Gimcrack?"
Just because some lazy or ignorant people use an incorrect phrase and it becomes common usage is no reason why all should follow suit, especially those who purport to know something about the sport.There is only one Derby, and Camelot won it – all the rest are (mostly pale) imitations.
Great OP Insomniac.
Well said OP.
Almost annoying as references to "British English" to differentiate from, for example, "American English". British English is just
English
, no need for qualification.
The race title does not have "Epsom" in it, that’s all there is to it.
The race title also has the word "Stakes"in it, do you use that word every time you refer to the race? Probably not.
It is acceptable for people to use qualifiers to distinguish races, especially people in other countries that have other Derbies.
Likewise in some cases people use shortened versions…. for example do you use the full "Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe" every time you refer to that race, or just the shortened "the Arc" or "Prix de l’Arc"? I imagine one of the later.
Or they may use a completely different name altogether and superimpose their own version, for example most English speaking people will talk about running a horse in the "French 2000 Guineas" or simply "French Guineas", and not "Poule d’Essai des Poulains"Lot more important things to be bothered about.
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