Brokeback Mountain – Why a success

[zilzal]

Went to see this last night and surprised to see such a large, young and mixed audience. It’s hard to see how the film has been a mainstream hit. I’m not sure it works even on a subliminal offbeat level. Has the critics’ acclaim yet again corralled the moviegoers into the picturehouses?

[Lovely Lady]

Hi zilzal

People will always want to see critically acclaimed films to judge for themselves.  Can’t see anything wrong with that, whether they enjoy it as much is for them to judge.  Obviously it didn’t hit with you.    

It’s a film made every bit as much for the female audience as any other group [they usually drag their boyfriends along do they not?], with the casting of 2 hunky young men.   The characters in the short story that this film is based on, seem nowhere near as photogenically blessed.    

If you go see it during the afternoon, you will find the audience very mature, even geriatric.  Amazed the number of people, some barely able to walk, turning up to see it.

If you can appreciate such as Pride and Prejudice, North and South, Wuthering Heights, then providing you can tolerate the rawness, and rough language found here,  you are still left feeling the effects of what is another heartaching love story.

Did you manage to grasp the dialogue by the way?  I’ve had to see it several times to get all of it, the accents being so strong.<br>      <br>

[zilzal]

LL

Thanks for that explanation. It just never crossed my inncoent  mind that so many females would get a kick out of one good-looking bloke buggering another :biggrin:

I think I got most of the dialogue in a film lacking  humour. The cinematography was OK but certainly didn’t knock me out of my seat. However I always enjoy  watching characters from an authentic stratum of American life even if it’s an average movie like this one or Sweet Home Alabama

[Lovely Lady]

Zilzal

"It just never crossed my innocent mind that so many females would get a kick out of one good-looking bloke buggering another"

Clearly you’ve never heard of the ‘gay male trapped in a straight woman’s body’ syndrome.  :cool:  

Agree the film lacked humour, one of it’s downfalls, particularly for a British audience I feel.<br>As for it’s authenticity, surprisingly a good few people seem to identify with it.  I have a friend in the States, a former rancher, who’s life is mirrored in this film.

Have you seen Narnia ?   I fell asleep during that Adam and Eve based claptrap.  

[graysonscolumn]

Quote: from Lovely Lady on 6:00 pm on Jan. 30, Have you seen Narnia ?   I fell asleep during that Adam and Eve based claptrap.  

<br>I’m with Philip Pullman all the way where the Narnia books are concerned. Herewith some excerpts from an interview at http://www.surefish.co.uk/culture/features/pullman_interview.htm

<br>You’ve been very vocal in your criticism of C.S. Lewis and his Narnia books. <br>There’s a distinction between the things Lewis says as a critic, which are very acute and full of sense and full of intelligent and sometimes subtle judgements – much of which I agree with – and the things he said when was possessed by the imp of telling a story, especially in his children’s fiction.

Narnia has always seemed to me to be marked by a hatred of the physical world. When I bring this up, people say, oh no, what nonsense! He loved his beer, loved laughter and smoking a pipe, and the companionship of his friends and so on. And so he might have done. But that didn’t prevent perhaps his unconscious mind from saying something quite different in the form of a story. I’m by no means alone in attacking Lewis on these grounds.

You’re not alone in attacking Lewis but you are really vehement in your criticism. You’ve called his books ‘detestable’. Why do you feel so strongly about them? <br>Because the things he’s being cruel to are things I value very highly. The crux of it all comes, as many people have found, with the point near the end of the Last Battle (in the Narnia books) when Susan is excluded from the stable. The stable obviously represents salvation. They’re going to heaven, they’re going to be saved. But Susan isn’t allowed into the stable, and the reason given is that she’s growing up. She’s become far too interested in lipstick, nylons and invitations. One character says rather primly: ‘She always was a jolly sight too keen on being grown up.’

This seems to me on the part of Lewis to reveal very weird unconscious feelings about sexuality. Here’s a child whose body is changing and who’s naturally responding as everyone has ever done since the history of the world to the changes that are taking place in one’s body and one’s feelings. She’s doing what everyone has to do in order to grow up.

Maybe one day she’ll grow past the invitations and the lipstick and the nylons. But my point is that it’s an inevitable, important, valuable and cherishable stage that we go through. This what I’m getting at in my story. To welcome and celebrate this passage, rather than to turn from it in fear and loathing.

That’s what I find particularly objectionable in Lewis – and also the fact that he kills the children at the end. Now here are these children who have gone through great adventures and learned wonderful things and would therefore be in a position to do great things to help other people. But they’re taken away. He doesn’t let them. For the sake of taking them off to a perpetual school holiday or something, he kills them all in a train crash. I think that’s ghastly. It’s a horrible message.

(Edited by graysonscolumn at 6:43 pm on Feb. 1, 2006)

Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.

[Sal]

Saw Brokeback Mountain last night – would be a deserving Oscar winner IMO.  Not sure about the lack of humour – it certainly wasn’t a joke-fest but there were enough sly moments to raise appropriate chuckles (Lureen’s transformation into a reject from Dallas was appreciated).

Far from being just a ‘gay’ movie, the love story could translate pretty much into the story of any couple who were apart due to pressures in society such as race, class or religion.

I have a theory about this – BEWARE SPOILERS!!!

Three decades ago Ennis and Jack met and fell in love over a summer.  Ennis emphasised it was a short term thing, as his parents were fiercely anti-gay and as a child he had been told horror stories of same-sex relationships.  His parents would have been furious if he hadn’t married and Ennis already had a bride lined up for him.  Ennis and Jack went their separate ways.  Ennis married his lady and had two beautiful children he adored.  Jack married a rich woman and had children too.  After several years apart they reunited and began an on-off affair.  Jack was willing to leave his wife, but Ennis was constrained by family commitments  and expectations and feared the wrath of society.  Ennis’s wife discovered the affair, but suffered in silence for several years for the sake of maintaining appearances.  Eventually Ennis and his wife divorced, and Jack believed he and Ennis could start over together.  Ennis still struggled with the legacy of his parents disapproval and of being vilified in the community and suffered the agony of indecision.

Now try this…<br>Three decades ago a prince and a common girl met and fell in love over a summer.  The prince emphasised it was a short term thing, as his parents were fiercely anti-commoners and as a child he had been told horror stories of different-class relationships.  His parents would have been furious if he hadn’t married an aristocrat and the prince already had a bride lined up for him.  The prince and the common girl went their separate ways.  The prince married his lady and had two beautiful children he adored.  The girl married a rich man and had children too.  After several years apart they reunited and began an on-off affair.  The common girl was willing to leave her husband, but the prince was constrained by family commitments  and expectations and feared the wrath of society.  The prince’s wife discovered the affair, but suffered in silence for several years for the sake of maintaining appearances.  Eventually the prince and his wife divorced, and the common girl believed she and the prince could start over together.  The prince still struggled with the legacy of his parents disapproval and of being vilified in the community and suffered the agony of indecision.

Is Brokeback Mountain just an alternative ending to the story of Charles and Camilla?

[stevedvg]

Is Brokeback Mountain just an alternative ending to the story of Charles and Camilla?

… but with 2 homos instead of just one….

[Lovely Lady]

Sal,

An interesting analogy and not one many  people would have thought of, but it’s a theme that can be related to a lot of relationships, people who for one reason or another just cannot get together in the way they would like.

Also,  and forgive me if you already know this, but the screenplay is adapted from the short story written by middle aged female Western writer Annie Proulx, and I doubt she had Charles and Camilla in mind when she wrote it though :cool:   <br>She based it on observations she made  of an old cowboy in a bar in some western town who she felt may have had something in common with the characters she wrote about.      

Otherwise you’ve given a good synopsis of the storyline although I would disagree on it being an on-off affair.  It was always on, they just couldn’t see each other that often.

Sal, what did you think of the soundtrack?   every song with every scene had a meaning, although much is easily missed on a sole viewing.   <br>I find this film quite masculine, dour, rough and raw, but with some real tender moments.    I think women generally love it, but having dragged my husband along he’s suffered it 6 times now, still only gives it 6/10 – but I ain’t stoppin’ there !

Graysonscolumn:

thanks for that posting – enjoyed reading it.   I think we’re all agreed.:)

Stevedvg   :o    he can take it.<br>

[Chubs]

L L

ive seen this film i do like the soundtrack whats your favourite song:)

[Lovely Lady]

Mr Chubs,

‘No One’s Gonna Love You Like Me’ (no one else, can’t you see…..)

don’t take it personal  ;)

I’m seeing ‘The New World’ next week, anyone seen it?<br>longing to see Colin Farrell making it out with Pocahontas, although I’d rather see him getting it on with Brad Pitt – boy would we be queuein’ up.:cool:

[Sal]

Not very good with music, LL.  When the first few notes sounded over the opening scene I worried it would be very intrusive (harsh sounds over such a quiet landscape – although in retrospect very appropriate for the film) but from then on the music didn’t register with me – which usually means for me that it is perfectly fitting for the film.  I only notice when it’s bad!

The author was one of the reasons I wanted to see the film, despite not being impressed with the film of The Shipping News.  I’m quite a fan of Ang Lee too, and if he doesn’t win an Oscar for this I’ll boycott all films, by all Academy members, forever.

[Matron]

I agree with you Sal about Shipping News – I thought both the lead parts were miscast.

After reading the book, I was very disappointed.

Regards – Matron<br>:cool:

[Grimes]

Sergio Leone, thou shouldst be living now…

Those Sphagetti Westerns will never seem quite the same again.

[Author]

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