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The relaxation of gambling laws and deregulation of the advertising gambling products will be a financial disaster for a lot of very vulnerable people. The proliferation of fixed margin gambling products is sickening. This started with the introduction of the National Lottery and millions of people with no understanding of odds are hooked into this new form of taxation.
The growth in recent years of online poker and casino is disgusting and the suppliers of these services sit back raking in money, in a no lose scenario. I have seen a few of these operations from the inside while doing some freelance work in Gibraltar. I cannot bring myself to do any more work for these companies. The number one rule for these leeches is player retention. Just keep them happy and keep them playing. Anyone who plays these games needs help.
I know an avalanche of poker players will try and defend what they do in the belief they are playing in a fair game. Just leave me out please.
Betting and laying on horse racing and major sports on Betfair with money you can afford is as fair as it gets. All other forms of betting are IMO absolute gambling.
I know its not cool to go against the crowd but personally i thought the programme was absolute trash, where a millionaire business man blamed ladbrokes for letting an employee steel a maximum of £6500 a day untill he’d taken and spent over a million pounds gambling at labrokes poker.
it by no means differentiated between horse/greyhound racing and FOBT or casino type gambling but simply implied that all gambling is bad and has no benefit. the limit of factual research comprised of going into a bar in a run down area which was saturated with Bookies, where yet again another bookie was moving in, and asking the land ladies thoughts on the subject. Cut next to the local councillor stood outside the offending premises which was apparently a thriving hardware store, that had no choice but to sell to a high street bookmaker. Next door sits a childrens bookstore who the councillor says is thinking of closing and moving because when the smoking ban comes in everyone will congregate outside and put her customers off.
it put forward trivial and emotive arguments on a very serious subject which is typical of tv today. if you missed try watching on C4 ON DEMAND, but believe me its not worth your time.
I have mixed feelings about this .. as some of you know I take my own kids racing with me and they have both been having a bet for the past couple of years. The same as I did with my old man.
Gambling is a problem in this country and I would like to see the lottery scaled down with smaller stakes and prize money. Standing in a massive queue in asda on a Saturday and seeing skint grown ups splashing out £20 – £30 in scratch cards is pitiful.
I once was totally addicted to "poker machines", I still believe I am addicted {I don’t put myself in a situation anymore that would tempt me}, but I got married had kids, and realised something has to give, I gave up the machines. I love a flutter on the nags, I smoke, and I DRINK fairly frequently, but what I gamble, drink & smoke is my {if you like pocket money} as I hand over the majority of my wages to the Mrs, so I don’t put myself into a situation where family conflict is inevitable. I know plenty of individuals who gamble virtually every penny of their wages, and that of course leads to a miserable family life, neglected household, neglected children. Some people would put the a/m into the category of a pathetic self centered horrible b–stard. He has a problem that society created for him, he is probably one of the nicest person you would ever meet apart from his gambling addiction, he doesn’t want to leave the wife and kids short, and in his desperation to get the money he put by for the wife and kids back, he gambles more, its a sad but a very real side to gambling.
What makes machines so much worse than betting horses/greyhounds/football, sport in general, is the realisation that if you get off the machine some other c-unt is going to put 2 euro/pound in and claim the jackpot/royal flush, after you put in hundreds of your hard earned wages, thats why people are very reluctant to get off machines, where horse racing and sport is a matter of opinion.
"Don’t judge", yes some are pathetic self centered b–stards that don’t give a flying hoot about the wife and kids, but most are in need of help.
"Gambling has an element of fun about it that makes even more addictive"Roland writes:
I know its not cool to go against the crowd but personally i thought the programme was absolute trash, where a millionaire business man blamed ladbrokes for letting an employee steel a maximum of £6500 a day untill he’d taken and spent over a million pounds gambling at labrokes poker.
He didn’t blame Ladbrokes, he blamed the employee. He was annoyed with Ladbrokes solely because they boasted that they ‘built up customer profiles’ to offer checks and balances. Just not enough to detect anything suspicious about a 21-year-old kid living with his Mum & Dad ripping up the thick end of two grand a day for eighteen months.
I think he had a point on that basis. He was not a ‘millionaire’ businessman, he was a guy in the building trade who had had a million pounds stolen.
it by no means differentiated between horse/greyhound racing and FOBT or casino type gambling but simply implied that all gambling is bad and has no benefit.
Nonsense. The program only ever mentioned horse racing in passing and not once in a perjurative way. It was entirely focused on FOBT’s and other ‘rapid-stake’ games of chance plus internet poker. The presenter stated that when he entered a bookmakers it was solely to play FOBT’s. Consultant Warwick Bartlett described them as being considerably more addictive than horse racing and many bookmakers ‘saviours’. The professor shown, Mark Griffiths, declared that if the government was serious about protecting vulnerable people then slot machines ‘should be something they take action on’.
the limit of factual research comprised of going into a bar in a run down area which was saturated with Bookies, where yet again another bookie was moving in, and asking the land ladies thoughts on the subject.
No. They were asking her reaction to the fact that a bookmakers representative had gone into the bar in a feeble attempt to garner support for a proposed new shop amongst her reluctant customers.
Cut next to the local councillor stood outside the offending premises which was apparently a thriving hardware store, that had no choice but to sell to a high street bookmaker.
Incorrect. He sold to a property developer. They subsequently touted it to the major bookmaker’s chains.
Next door sits a childrens bookstore who the councillor says is thinking of closing and moving because when the smoking ban comes in everyone will congregate outside and put her customers off.
Getting off-topic, but is this not a reasonable point?
it put forward trivial and emotive arguments on a very serious subject which is typical of tv today.
To the extent that the destruction of Mr Brindell’s – and others’ – lives is trivial and emotive, yes.
He ended the program thus:
‘It’s unbelievable that our children can still gamble. It’s shaming that help for addicts is so underfunded.’
I find it very hard to disagree with those comments.
Mike
SteveDG wrote:-
However, there’s a point where it goes from offering a service to encouraging addiction and I feel that’s taking it too far.
Basically I’m with you on that. I agree too with Dave Jay re. the pathetic sight of lottery and scratch card players wasting their money too. But these people are free to vote, free to join the army/police, free to spawn children and some of them may even pay Income Tax
. They are free to be complete and total idiots with their spending, be it on porn, chocolates, or betting and surely the state must butt-out and let them do what they want.
Yes, bookmakers do encourage customers to bet, bet, bet – but PEOPLE CAN SAY NO. The manager(ess) of Ladbrokes will not eject a person for only having one bet surely (or have things deteriorated so much since I last went into a bookmakers’ ?. )
There is perhaps also a type of gambling "snobbery" here of which, if I’m honest, I’m guilty too. When I think of people buying scratch-cards or lottery tickets or feeding fruit machines or gambling on every dog and horse race under the sun, I look down my nose at them; imagining them to be low-life doleites who never exercise, never work, eat sh%%e and read a red-top daily. Yet, if a person gambled on the stock market day in day out and ended up in sh*t city a lá Nick Leeson, then I would be less inclined to think of him as the pathetic dregs of society. Some forms of gambling addiction seem more acceptable than others. But, if you screwed your marriage, family and life up the consequences are the same.
The state has to allow people to screw up.SteveDG wrote:-
However, there’s a point where it goes from offering a service to encouraging addiction and I feel that’s taking it too far.
Basically I’m with you on that. I agree too with Dave Jay re. the pathetic sight of lottery and scratch card players wasting their money too. But these people are free to vote, free to join the army/police, free to spawn children and some of them may even pay Income Tax
. They are free to be complete and total idiots with their spending, be it on porn, chocolates, or betting and surely the state must butt-out and let them do what they want.
Yes, bookmakers do encourage customers to bet, bet, bet – but PEOPLE CAN SAY NO. The manager(ess) of Ladbrokes will not eject a person for only having one bet surely (or have things deteriorated so much since I last went into a bookmakers’ ?. )
There is perhaps also a type of gambling "snobbery" here of which, if I’m honest, I’m guilty too. When I think of people buying scratch-cards or lottery tickets or feeding fruit machines or gambling on every dog and horse race under the sun, I look down my nose at them; imagining them to be low-life doleites who never exercise, never work, eat sh%%e and read a red-top daily. Yet, if a person gambled on the stock market day in day out and ended up in sh*t city a lá Nick Leeson, then I would be less inclined to think of him as the pathetic dregs of society. Some forms of gambling addiction seem more acceptable than others. But, if you screwed your marriage, family and life up the consequences are the same.
The state has to allow people to screw up.Not that easy to say NO, when the addictions have taken hold. "Thats why their called Addictions"
AP – If you have Virgin Media you can watch it again through their CatchUp TV service. I think the programme is titled "The Insider".
I feel sorry for those who have a gambling problem/addiction. It is all about self control, temperament and discipline. Sadly, the gambling addict has none of these basic requirements. The worst thing that any punter can do – and must avoid at all costs – is the compunction to chase losses. I know people who will stand in a bookmakers shop until they are down to their last penny. As for fruit machines, vitual racing etc which now blight the modern day betting shop – well, heaven help us all.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Overheard at a function in Croydon. Two ladies natter over tea and vol au vents during the lunch break.
“Oh Phyllis. Why are there so many poor people?”
“I don’t know, Rebecca. It is such a shame isn’t it”.
“It is. What are we going to do about them?”
“Oh, I don’t know. I wish I knew”. She sips more tea with cocked little finger.
“I mean. I can’t get to Lazards on time for all the untaxed Cortinas on the road. And getting home is a nightmare. Don’t they just clutter up the place.”
“Oh yes. And as for the engine wear…”
“…they wear tracksuit trousers outside the gym. They live on benefits. They breed like summer hamsters…and some of them with black people! They don’t want to work.They beat up their wives. They watch that Big Brother. They read The Sun. They live on drugs and crisps…did you know they deep fry Mars Bars?””
“Mars Bars? Well I never….”
“Yes Phyllis. They put Mars Bars in the fryer because they spend all their money on heroin and poker. This is how they get their protein!”
“We must have our protein, yes”
“I’m even more shocked to report, Phyllis, that most of their benefits go on scratch cards”
“Oh thank heaven for small mercies”. Phyllis is genuinely pleased. “Our local community centre was financed by a grant from the Big Lottery fund. I think we should have many more scratch cards.”
“No it’s not good, Phyllis”. She shakes her head, seeing her friend has wildly missed the point. “Oh, I don’t know. What are we going to do about the poor?”Insomniac wanders over, a glass of sherry in one hand and a rolled up Daily Telegraph in the other. He leans over.
“Why don’t we just gas them?” He says, archly.
I obviously didn’t do the program justice as i by no means took as extensive notes as yourself, Mike, and put forward my opinion on the over riding feelings i had. Maybe my mood was affected by my abysmal play at the poker tables that day, but if i remember correctly the important subject was for me not done justice by the content of the programme.
If there is rain today at lords i will make the effort to watch again.
I obviously didn’t do the program justice as i by no means took as extensive notes as yourself, Mike
Well, I wouldn’t go that far! I just watched it again as I didn’t really recognise it from your impressions.
I totally take your point about TV trivialising and making emotive arguments to drive home an agenda. It’s just that I didn’t think that was particularly happening in this case. Although it’s probably fair to say that a reformed compulsive gambler is unlikely to be too concerned about balance when talking about the bookmaking industry.
But he did raise some very important points.
Mike
Per Maxilon:-
Insomniac wanders over, a glass of sherry in one hand and a rolled up Daily Telegraph in the other. He leans over.
"Why don’t we just gas them?" He says, archly.
As long as the taxpayer didn’t have to shoulder the tax bill!
Insomniac.I’ve just been into Nottingham to pick my lad up. Was early, so I stopped at a bookies to watch an hours racing. I always feel far more comfortable in a bookmakers shop than I do behind a PC.
Contrary to everyone elses experience, (apparently), the ten or eleven punters inside weren’t symbiotically attached to the FOBT’s but were keenly studying and watching the races.
This has always been my experience, that punters race first and play the machines in the gaps.
However, after the result of the 3.20 at Redcar, (which attracted considerable Betfair style comment in the aftermath), at least two of them left the shop in a huff. I could see their point.
Surely Britain is already gambling capital of the world. Where else in the world can you find bookies shops on every high street? Problem is you can usually tell a drug addict or an alcoholic as they sometimes have physical signs, but a gambling addict just looks normal. I know personally of two gamblers who think nothing of spending money in the bookies but are up to their neck in debt. It’s time the government woke up and realised that gambling is a serious problem just like drugs or alcohol.
Steve you’re right – it is a problem But it’s not a crime. And that leaves us with the issue of whether the state should be curtailing people’s freedom to bet and how. Or should it just let people make their own mistakes ?
Compulsive gambling by young people (under 25) is a huge problem and is fueled by the new products introduced over the last few years. I have two close friends both struggling to deal with a son gambling out of control. These young guys are £50k and £275k in debt and in both cases they stated gambling within the last four years.
I hope Gordon Brown takes the difficult decision and scrap the super casino concept.
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