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<br>sunybay
agree with you banks hill is better than aquestelle but over 10f would on what has been achieved to date aquestelle above grandera aquestelle will also be improving
mesh
tempting fate they said on c4 she was retiring but i am sure one of them after the race whispered she wasnt so very confusing.<br> perhaps one of the presenters was tempting fate with a guess.!!
dont think shes any great shakes though
The form in Singapour was the best form from Grandera until today. PM (PostMark) gave him a PM of 123 for this performance. For his places in the Eclipse Stakes and the International he earned a two PMs of 119. His best performance came when he won the Dubai Arc Trial (PM 121) by 1,5 length. And do not forget, he was placed in the Franc Derby as well (his fourth best form last year).
And the race in Singapour is better like some people think.
Paolini: Second best German 1m2f horse last year (only Silvano was better). Needs firm ground to show his best form and won two Group I Races in Italy over 1m2f and 1m4f. Beating horses like the 3time Group I winner Kutub and the classic winning filly Super Tassa.
Indigenous: Placed in the top races in Asia like the Hong Kong Vase or the Queen Elizabeth II Cup. Yes he has not won for quite a while but he is running always to a rating of 113 – 119.
Olympic Express: Improved a lot since his move to Hong Kong. Won the Hong Kong Derby
HAWKEYE: The horse with the freshest England Form. Winner of a Group III in Irland during the Summer he was placed in the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes behind Summoner, placed in the Dubai Champion Stakes behind Nayef and Tobougg and in the Prix du Moulin de Longchamp behind .<br>So do not say the race in Singapour is a Group I only in Name……:pimp:<br>
do u know hk racing very well outside of the december meeting it is not that strong not even at sha tin most of their horses can only be described as uk/australian/new zealand rejects although it is improving but not at the rate some seem to place on it
<br>indiginous is 9 years old hardly likely to be improving
olympic express otherwise known as eccliastical 2nd in the britannia (a handicap) the hong kong derby not exactly in the same league as epsom/curragh/chantilly/kentuckey is it
grp 1 races in italy well known for their strenth in depth
compared to england/ireland/france/america i would think it quite fair to call it grp 1 in name only.
and as connections are targeting it for the arlington it dosnt look like they are going overboard about the race either
After Race Report from the Racing Post:
Godolphin have acquired yet another major player for the World Series in the shape of Grandera, who scored an impressive first win in their colours in a dramatic Singapore International Airlines Cup on Saturday.<br>The heavily supported former James Fanshawe-trained four-year-old now heads stablemate Street Cry and Eishin Preston in the World<br>Series rankings after coming from off the pace to beat German challenger Paolini by two lengths in a fast-run race that  featured high-class runners from seven countries. British challenger Hawkeye found the trip too sharp and finished fifth.
Simon Crisford after the Race:
Simon Crisford, the Godolphin racing manager, said: "This is a truly international event and we are delighted to have won it. Sheikh Mohammed is a great believer in international racing and saw this horse as an ideal flag-bearer for Godolphin. Although we don’t want to make a decision in the heat of battle, we’ll talk about the Arlington Million in Chicago on August 17, and I doubt if you’ll see him before then.
I think you need a very good horse to win the Eclipse Stakes or the International…..but  as well it need’s a very good horse to win the Arington Million.
:pimp:
to prince regent:
Even if you take out the "Asian" Horses you have a strong race with a two times Group I winner in Paolini and Hawkeye Group winner and Group I placed.
And just luck on the other Godolphin runner Atlantis Prince he was beaten by more than 10 lenght.
The old but still good Indiginous will be campagned in the Top European 10-12f races during this summer. He was beaten 4,5 lenght to the winner…..in December he became third behind Stay Gold (beaten 6 lenght) who wone …. I do not know how many Group Races.
Please do not misunderstand me…:o … I do not think that Grandera will have a chance for one second against the mighty Sakhee…. but against horses like Golan and Carnival Dancer he will have a chance to win…. :pimp:
dm
i have read what you have so kindly typed up but what exactly is it supposed to prove
the world series hmmmmmm of great interest and importence so importent it has lost its sponser
its an international event well we all knew that even before the race and we also knew that sheik mo likes international racing nothing new there mate singapore may well be a good place to send horses that are below the best in europe and to advertise holidays in dubai
roll on the macau derby
if hes so good why cant we see him before arlington not the hardest race in america to win , not that he has even won it yet i doubt very much if connecctions of banks hill aquelleste et al have this race on their agenda
<br> i fear the connections are not overreacting to the result either
to prince regent:
Which english horse was the last winning the Arlington Million…..??? :cool:
The reason I posted the RP article is to show (you) what the "experts" think of the race featured high-class runners from seven countries and you are saying it is not a true Group I race.
DM, Just to back you up Nigel Gray (official Jockey Club handicapper) thought afterwards that Singapore was well up to International Group 1 class.
Indigenous is a good yardstick and he was 3rd to Eishin Preston and Agnes Digital (probably 2 of the best horses in the world) in Audemars Piguet Queen Elizabeth II Cup in April – with Grandera behind – over what is probably an inadequate trip of 10 furlongs.
I’m delighted that Godolphin are looking at the Arlington Million for Grandera and he may take on Paolini again. I think Terre A Terre is more likely for the Beverly D Stakes and Falbrav, good Italian winner at weekend, may also be pointed out there according the press.
Paolini ran first time up in blinkers on Saturday and they definitely sharpened him up. Andreas Suborics did well to miss the break and cut him to the rail from gate 13 so that he could save ground. He did pull early however. I think he will be a solid Group 1 performer again this year.
As for European winners of the Arlington Million well Silvano won it for Germany last year – having won in Singapore and Hong Kong earlier in the year. It does seem important to give them a summer break if they are going to be competitive in the Autumn.
In 2000 Godolphin’s Slickly was unplaced.
The last British winner was Teleprompter (Bill Watts) in 1985, following Tolomeo in 1983. French horses Mill Native (88), Dear Doctor (92), have also won the Million
<br>dm
if u take out the asian horses u are still left with hawkeye alantis prince and paolini not the best europe has to offer by any stretch of the imagination nothing more than bit players
which ever way you wish to paint it the singapore race is in the bottom league of grp 1 races and connections by avoiding taking the horse back here dont seem to value the race as highly as u seem to
it was a collection of has beens wanna bees and a well placed horse in grandera
adrian
sorry but if nigel gray thinks this is well up to grp1 class he must be expecting some pretty poor races coming our way.
unless we are in for a poor season then this race will be sitting at the bottom of the table for grp 1 races
to prince regent :wave: it’s me again
I think the season is still young and we have to wait a few more weeks, probably month until we know the class of some horses. But in the moment a PM of 123 like Grandera got for the race is a Postemark for winning Group I Races dosn’ t metter where in the World. If in England, France, USA or far East.
But let’s have a look on the Eclipes Stakes in the last ten years…… with a PM of 123 Grandera would have one the Eclipse Stakes 5 times and would have been placed at the other 5 races….. That makes him a horse for the Eclipse, if he runs or not …. only time..;). ..ahhh I mean Godophin will tell us.:biggrin:
By the way….Paolini’s main aim this season will be the Canadian International, but before his conections are thinking about a start at Royal Ascot in the Prince of Wales’s Stakes.
:pimp:
<br>Postmark is saying that Paolini has run his best ever race by 1lb – his second best being in the Canadian International.
That Canadian International form: The winner was no G1 horse in this country – he was about a G3 horse. Mutamam’s G2 win was a beating of Little Rock – not G1 form. Zindabad was 4th in that G2 (Prince Of Wales) and he was 3rd (placed 6th) in the Canadian International. Zindabad has won G3’s in this country, but been beaten in G2 races.
That Canadian International was not up to it’s G1 standard and if Paolini ran 1lb better than that in the Singapore race, that would suggest it was a G2/G3 standard race.
Grandera has been beaten in G1’s and it would be a surprise if he were able to win a G1 in Britain. Last year’s Eclipse was hardly conclusive was it? The first 5 were covered by about a length. <br>
<br>Basically, Grandera needs to improve to win a G1 in this country. Of course, Godolphin have done it before, but Grandera’s current form leaves him a little short. He’s consistent though and certainly deserves credit for a good win.
To robgomm:<br>Last year’s Eclipse was hardly conclusive was it? Maybe…..but like I said, Grandera would have been placed or would have one the last 10 Eclipse Stakes with the form from Singapore. Not only last years. :)
to robgomm & prince regent
When do you consider a horse a "real" Group I horse.<br>For me Grandera is one….. in England, Irland or anywhere else :biggrin:
<br>Milan, Sagacuty, Bach, Tobougg, Black Minnaloushe and Medicean just to name a few horses Grandera beat last year when he was placed in three Group I Races. I think a horse beaten in the French Derby (not a great race last year) by ½ length, beaten in the Eclipse by ½ length and second to the “monsterâ€ÂÂ
<br>I disagree (sorry :) ) Grandera has already been placed in G1’s so the Singarpore International Cup was not much bother to him as it was only of about G2/G3 standard.
Britain and Ireland have G1 races contested by some top quality G1 horses. Take Fantastic Light and Milan, two Group One winners in Britain/Ireland. They went over to the states and demolished America’s turf horse in the BC Turf.
When it comes to turf racing, the best horses race in Britain/Ireland. Grandera has yet to win a G1 in this country and, for me, that means he’s not yet a G1 horse.
Looks at Morshdi, his two G1 wins came in Germany and Italy but he wasn’t a patch on Galileo in the Irish Derby or the King George.
<br>to dm
cant say i can add anything to robbos points
the eclipse in the last 10 years
heres a list of winners who would have p**s
ed all over granderagiants causeway<br>halling<br>pilduski<br>daylami<br>opera house
heres a list of eclipse winners who would beat grandera
medicean<br>kooyonga<br>ezzoud
heres a list of winners he could possibly beat<br>enviroment freind<br>compton admiral
now we have had a history of the eclipse perhaps a little history of singapore cup winners
last year endless hall beat jim and tonic quite impressivly now what exactly did he win afterwards let me see sfa i think is the awnser
<br> paolinis main aim may be the pow indiginous main aim might be the arc- bc classic but if i were you i would put your house on them winning their main aims
sorry mate a good victory by grandera but nothing more than that and as for it be a grp 1 race well by asian standards may be but by european ……..
Hi, its me again :wave:
Rating (PM) of the Eclipse Stakes winner on the day of the Race and Rating from Grandera after his win in Far East……:o …I think that shows clearly that this horse has the form and class to win the race. I am saying nothing more……:cool:
Giants Causeway 129<br>Pilduski 128<br>Halling 127<br>Daylami 126<br>Kooyonga 124<br>Grandera 123<br>Compton Admiral 123<br>Opera house 121<br>Halling 120<br>Medicean 120<br>Ezzoud 119
And do not forget how Godolphin managed a other horse a few years ago….a three year old who joined the team after two Group wins (GII & GIII) and a win in a Listed Race at the end of the season……at the start of his four year old career he won a “littleâ€ÂÂ
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