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In the States it is not what races you lose but what races you win that counts.Infact the place finishes are enhanced by the winning ones.
The connexions of Frankel seem to have an irrational fear of defeat, as though it might effect his stud value.
What ARE you going on about?
This is complete nonsense EF and simply not true. He ran 4 times as a 2 year old in the space of 2 months including the major Championship race for 2 year olds. He ran in every Championship mile race in the UK as a 3 year old AND he stays in training as a 4 year old where he will be competing in all the Championship races over a mile and 10 furlongs! If you were right he would have been retired to stud. Sometimes I don’t know what planet you are living on!!!"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
…Miss Andretti had no problems in doing the converting,taking 2 seconds off the Ascot track record.
…perhaps you should learn that prior to Miss Andretti’s Ascot win, the course had been realigned – remade I think. Comparing race times with previous is futile in this respect.
And you are showing you dont know much about racing,the first 200m is from a standing start out of the gates!!!! ffs!!! learn about racing! This is always the case!!!!
…what has that got to do with it?
I don’t think this is true of every jurisdiction in any case. I think, in America, or they used to, the timing started some yards after the start which is why Secretariat’s much heralded Belmont Stakes win time shouldn’t be taken too literally. I feel sure the timing used to start some 30 yards or so after the gates opened. That may not be the case today.And a fading 11.4 secs um when you have run your previous 400m in 20.18 secs not a bad fade you chronic knocker of aussie horses…..
…I’m not sure where you’ve got that from, I’ve always been rather fond of it. It may be true of recent times though, but not historically – much like their tennis players.
The same’s true of the British Champions Day Sprint – 14.23 was the quickest opening furlong. America might disregard "true" opening splits via run-ups; Australia doesn’t.
…6f on a stiff track – I don’t think it really compares. Perhaps you could tell us the first 200 metres of Tangerine Trees Prix de l’Abbaye win, [55.53 at the finish] for a better idea.
I’m a little concerned for her after watching that run. Super win no doubt but if any run could flatten her and jeopardise her campaign that was it. I’d be giving Ascot a miss personally I mean really what does she stand to gain by going there? That field yesterday was lengths better than anything she’ll encounter over there, she’s won the sprint championship of the world at Flemington yesterday. It’d be tragic if she had a tough campaign here with barely a break then went to ascot at the end of her tether.
The connexions of Frankel seem to have an irrational fear of defeat, as though it might effect his stud value.
What ARE you going on about?
This is complete nonsense EF and simply not true. He ran 4 times as a 2 year old in the space of 2 months including the major Championship race for 2 year olds. He ran in every Championship mile race in the UK as a 3 year old AND he stays in training as a 4 year old where he will be competing in all the Championship races over a mile and 10 furlongs! If you were right he would have been retired to stud. Sometimes I don’t know what planet you are living on!!!Earth.
While it is commendable and entirely in keeping with Khalid Abdulla’s policy regarding keeping Frankel in training, it is just something I have gleaned from interviews of Henry that he has never shown before when talking about one of his horses. This year is all about selling the horse as a possible mating prospect. If he is never extended or forced to show whether he has courage then his appeal to breeders is lessened. The chances of him siring offspring within half a stone of his own ability are remote indeed so a breeder wants to see what other positive traits he might impart to his progeny. To do this, how far are connexions prepared to take him outside his comfort zone? The coming season will tell us.
Black Caviar has run as many races in the last 3 weeks as Frankel will run in the next 6 months.
You omit to mention that the first 200 metres [that’s metres not furlongs – or have you momentarily forgotten which country you are supposed to be in..?] was run in a rather modest 13.54 – almost 14 seconds, the second 200 in a better 10.21. It’s not really surprising that she managed a 9.98 for the 3rd period, fading to an 11.40 in the last 200.
I don’t think I’ve read a more clueless comment on any forum. Yes, a modest 13.54 1st 200m due to the fact that they are timed from a standing start, unlike Japan, NZ & other places I gather.
It’s not suprising that she managed 9.98??? Name any horse anywhere that has…
The connexions of Frankel seem to have an irrational fear of defeat, as though it might effect his stud value.
What ARE you going on about?
This is complete nonsense EF and simply not true. He ran 4 times as a 2 year old in the space of 2 months including the major Championship race for 2 year olds. He ran in every Championship mile race in the UK as a 3 year old AND he stays in training as a 4 year old where he will be competing in all the Championship races over a mile and 10 furlongs! If you were right he would have been retired to stud. Sometimes I don’t know what planet you are living on!!!Earth.
Not the one I live on.
While it is commendable and entirely in keeping with Khalid Abdulla’s policy regarding keeping Frankel in training,
Wrong. How about Dancing Brave, Warning or more recently Empire Maker, Oasis Dream and Rail Link. No such policy.
it is just something I have gleaned from interviews of Henry that he has never shown before when talking about one of his horses.
You don’t explain this comment and I havent a clue what you mean or what you have gleaned.
This year is all about selling the horse as a possible mating prospect.
Your opinion. I don’t think that is what it is ALL about at all. How about winning 6 Group 1 races including a Breeders Cup?
If he is never extended or forced to show whether he has courage then his appeal to breeders is lessened.
Is it hardly his fault if there isnt a horse good enough to push him? Did he not show courage in the St James? I would say so.
The chances of him siring offspring within half a stone of his own ability are remote indeed so a breeder wants to see what other positive traits he might impart to his progeny.
Not sure how you have worked this one out? How may positive traits do you want by the way? You are one hard to please lady!!!
To do this, how far are connexions prepared to take him outside his comfort zone? The coming season will tell us.
Is it not more a case of whether his opponents can take him outside of his comfort zone? Does the step up in trip or visit to Amreica qualify for you or would you prefer to see him in the National?
It always staggers me that people try to pick holes in great horses and when there are no holes to pick they try to find something else. Why can we not just enjoy this wonderful horse? As I have said on here already I am blown away by Black Caviar even though she has only raced in Australia so far. Sea The Stars was retired at 3 but I still hold him up as one of the greatest horses I have seen. Frankel has run exactly the same amount of times as STS and he still has another season left. Surely the time to say he was poorly campaigned will be after the season is finished?
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Black Caviar has run as many races in the last 3 weeks as Frankel will run in the next 6 months.
I must have missed about 3 races then?!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
A snippet of info possibly interesting to some, BC’s 2yo half brother won the juvenile race yesterday at Flemington. He is built like an absolute tank across the rear just like older sis…..they are saying the trait comes from the dam who is by desert sun.
Took a few strides to get going when asked but once he did he put paid to them quickly and looked fantastic across the line.
frankel’s last 3 furlongs in its latest win – 35.67sec
black caviar’s last 3 furlongs in its latest win – 31.78secfrankel would not even compete in a 1400m race. would be the same as hay list, buffering, karuta queen, crystal lily, southern speed, and everything else that black caviar has smashed in the past.
black caviar at any point in a race can turn it on and produce mind boggling sectionals. yesterday the 3rd sectional of the race was clocked at 9.98sec. nearly half a second quicker than frankels quickest ever sectional.
frankel has great staying power, but black caviar could cruise and sit on frankels outside as frankel wears itself out, and then caviar would produce a few 10sec furlongs and be 3 or 4 lengths clear, only to ease up on the line. anyone trying to compare the 2 in terms of who would actually win the race are idiots..
frankel is a champion 3 year old from the UK, black caviar is a freak, 19 starts, 19 wins, its last race it ran 55.5sec over 5 furlongs and thats from a standing start.
A snippet of info possibly interesting to some, BC’s 2yo half brother won the juvenile race yesterday at Flemington. He is built like an absolute tank across the rear just like older sis…..they are saying the trait comes from the dam who is by desert sun.
Took a few strides to get going when asked but once he did he put paid to them quickly and looked fantastic across the line.
Yes ‘All Too Hard’ looked sensational the last 200m,he really stretched out and looked good.He is by Casino Prince who was a good horse and Group 1 winner but a modest strike rate of 5 wins from 24,who was won in a raffle.He was 3rd in the Australian Cup ,so this bloke looks like he will run a lot further.A good start at stud to get Helsinge! When you consider he stands for a fee of $27 500 and this colt sold for just over $1 million.Along with her full brother Moshe 3 wins from 5 she is a valuable broodmare.
Can’t wait for her to get to Ascot. Considering our sprinters she’ll win by 5 furlongs
…6f on a stiff track – I don’t think it really compares. Perhaps you could tell us the first 200 metres of Tangerine Trees Prix de l’Abbaye win, [55.53 at the finish] for a better idea.
I’m dubious over the exact distances of both the Prix de l’Abbaye and Prix de la Foret as it is. But, for factual purposes, the Prix de l’Abbaye’s first "400m" took 22.35.
For comparison, 3 International Group 1 class sprints from 2011.
Hong Kong Sprint – 1200m – first 400m in 23.61. Take off a "standard" 10.5 and the first 200m is approximately 13.11
Al Quoz Sprint – 1000m – first 200m in 14.11
Dubai Golden Shaheen – 1200m – first 200m in 13.65
Nick Mordin is on record with a standing start being worth 1.5 seconds. I’m not saying Black Caviar’s first 200m was record breaking with a standing start, but it is easily explained.
It’s not suprising that she managed 9.98??? Name any horse anywhere that has…
It seems that Racing Victoria’s chief handicapper needs this question answered as well.
Definitely Ready, Caulfield, 20th March 2010. 9.96.
http://www.racingnetwork.com.au/betfair … fault.aspx
He also had a 9.52 on the Sandown Hillside track but that’s not really relevant.
frankel’s last 3 furlongs in its latest win – 35.67sec
black caviar’s last 3 furlongs in its latest win – 31.78secfrankel would not even compete in a 1400m race. would be the same as hay list, buffering, karuta queen, crystal lily, southern speed, and everything else that black caviar has smashed in the past
Crazy comparing different tracks in different conditions on different days. Even on the same track times vary day-to-day. Not to mention comparing races of significantly different distances.
Prix de l’Abbaye is run on a downward slope. Debate over her first section is pointless. Even if slightly slower than normal the rest of the race was not.
frankel has great staying power, but black caviar could cruise and sit on frankels outside as frankel wears itself out, and then caviar would produce a few 10sec furlongs and be 3 or 4 lengths clear, only to ease up on the line. anyone trying to compare the 2 in terms of who would actually win the race are idiots..
Well, this idiot is certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Frankel would blow Black Caviar out the water in a true run mile race. Comparing sprint times/sectionals of the easier and faster surface of Flemington with mile times/sectionals of Ascot’s stiffer course is not so much idiotic, as insane.
I haven’t seen a top class sprinter yet, who has competed in Europe, who would even get close to a top class miler, let alone the best miler. All this Aussie bluster about what Black Caviar would do to Frankel is just that … bluster !
I hope Peter Moody enters Black Caviar in the Queen Anne. He won’t face Frankel but she would meet other top milers from around Europe. I reckon she would struggle to win.
Moody has no intention of taking on Frankel – otherwise he would enter her for the Lockinge Stakes. No, Mr. Moody will stick to the sprint races – and rightly so – if, as I have suggested, he dares to bring the mare over.
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Am I the only one who doesn’t want to see Black Caviar and Frankel take each other on?
I remember what it did to Mill House taking on Arkle.
I didn’t want to see Arkle Vs Flyingbolt for the same reason.
I doubt if either Denman or Kauto Star ever recovered properly from their first duel, not that those two are in the same class as the others mentioned above.
We should enjoy the two superstars for what they are, a sprinter and a middle distance horse.
Unless Camelot turns out to be another freak of nature, hardly likely by the law of averages, I can see Frankel win The Arc to complete another unbeaten season.As for any Euro sprinter beating Black Caviar, won’t happen even if I was to ride her at Ascot
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