BHA Moves towards Sectional Timing – slightly

[robert99]

After 15 years of nagging and almost giving up BHA may now be listening to those who see the advantages to racing of sectional timing. A consultation has now been launched for your views.

"SECTIONAL TIMING
Consultation paper regarding sectional timing at British racecourses

Below is a link to an opening discussion document, put together by BHA with the aim of gathering feedback on the demand for and potential requirements of a sectional timing solution on British racecourses. We are keen to get feedback on it from any individuals or businesses with a vested interest in sectional timing (and the related data) for horseracing in Great Britain.

The British Horseracing Grant Scheme may offer some opportunity to access a limited amount of seed investment funding to assist in the research, development and implementation of an eventual solution. The amount of funding available, as well as the way in which any investment might be structured, is yet to be determined. The feedback received from interested parties in response to the document will naturally have a bearing on this. To be clear, this initial stage of the process is to determine what both the industry and its customers require from sectional timing, before any subsequent work then goes on to define exactly what solution is required and how it might best be delivered.

This consultation stage is designed to generate interaction and gather views about sectional timing as a whole; it is not at this stage aimed at providing a definitive scope for any eventual solution. As such, we welcome any views from individuals with informed opinions on the matter.

Follow this link to the consultation document. The consultation document offers a high level view on the topic and benefits of sectional timings, as well as an appendix outlining an initial working draft of the potential scope of requirements for a solution.

Please send your responses to:
Nigel Roddis
75 High Holborn
London
WC1V 6LS

Or email <!– e –>sectionaltiming@britishhorseracing.com<!– e –>.

Link:
<!– m –>http://www.britishhorseracing.com/resou … CUMENT.pdf<!– m –>

[Anonymous]

Surely if the BHA do make this happen then the bookies will then have the sectional-times info and will then ensure the market accounts for them, thus negating any edge they currently give?

I’m a big fan of sectionals and the less people that use them the better! The only problem I have is being able to do them properly, it’s pretty hard to tell when the horses pass furlong polls from the angles you get from the camera. Has anyone on here found a way of doing it properly?

[robert99]

Surely if the BHA do make this happen then the bookies will then have the sectional-times info and will then ensure the market accounts for them, thus negating any edge they currently give?

I’m a big fan of sectionals and the less people that use them the better! The only problem I have is being able to do them properly, it’s pretty hard to tell when the horses pass furlong polls from the angles you get from the camera. Has anyone on here found a way of doing it properly?

Bookmakers do not use any sophisticated analysis to form odds-lines. If they do not buy outsourced tissues they now let traders give rough odds for about 10 different sports/markets each and then wholly rely on Betfair to adjust their prices, (which they will not lay early on in any case). Paddy Power have a slightly more sophisticated odds-line program but in general bookmakers are no longer interested in setting their own odds as they simply get picked off if they are out of line. Most punters / media still cannot use so called "speed figures" correctly yet so there is little danger they will master sectionals any time soon.

I have been doing sectionals for all races in UK and Ireland for over a decade and developed software to automate the process and resolve the issues you mention. This has been calibrated against direct sectionals from Turftrax when available. Only real issue is when the cameras don’t provide footage.

[Gingertipster]

Surely if the BHA do make this happen then the bookies will then have the sectional-times info and will then ensure the market accounts for them, thus negating any edge they currently give?

I’m a big fan of sectionals and the less people that use them the better! The only problem I have is being able to do them properly, it’s pretty hard to tell when the horses pass furlong polls from the angles you get from the camera. Has anyone on here found a way of doing it properly?

Bookmakers do not use any sophisticated analysis to form odds-lines. If they do not buy outsourced tissues they now let traders give rough odds for about 10 different sports/markets each and then wholly rely on Betfair to adjust their prices, (which they will not lay early on in any case). Paddy Power have a slightly more sophisticated odds-line program but in general bookmakers are no longer interested in setting their own odds as they simply get picked off if they are out of line. Most punters / media still cannot use so called "speed figures" correctly yet so there is little danger they will master sectionals any time soon.

I have been doing sectionals for all races in UK and Ireland for over a decade and developed software to automate the process and resolve the issues you mention. This has been calibrated against direct sectionals from Turftrax when available. Only real issue is when the cameras don’t provide footage.

Totally agree with you Ben, I’ve been a fan of using sectionals/pace in form analysis for ages. The more it’s known about – the less edge there will be.

Robert: Won’t bookmakers "outsourced odds-compilers" (like Peter Martins) use it more in their analysis when freely available/quicker to use?… And even if it does not affect bookmakers Early Prices that much – more punters will be after the good price before it shortens. Therefore, less chance of Me, Thee and B getting on at the value price?

Value Is Everything

[robert99]

Surely if the BHA do make this happen then the bookies will then have the sectional-times info and will then ensure the market accounts for them, thus negating any edge they currently give?

I’m a big fan of sectionals and the less people that use them the better! The only problem I have is being able to do them properly, it’s pretty hard to tell when the horses pass furlong polls from the angles you get from the camera. Has anyone on here found a way of doing it properly?

Bookmakers do not use any sophisticated analysis to form odds-lines. If they do not buy outsourced tissues they now let traders give rough odds for about 10 different sports/markets each and then wholly rely on Betfair to adjust their prices, (which they will not lay early on in any case). Paddy Power have a slightly more sophisticated odds-line program but in general bookmakers are no longer interested in setting their own odds as they simply get picked off if they are out of line. Most punters / media still cannot use so called "speed figures" correctly yet so there is little danger they will master sectionals any time soon.

I have been doing sectionals for all races in UK and Ireland for over a decade and developed software to automate the process and resolve the issues you mention. This has been calibrated against direct sectionals from Turftrax when available. Only real issue is when the cameras don’t provide footage.

Totally agree with you Ben, I’ve been a fan of using sectionals/pace in form analysis for ages. The more it’s known about – the less edge there will be.

Robert: Won’t bookmakers "outsourced odds-compilers" (like Peter Martins) use it more in their analysis when freely available/quicker to use?… And even if it does not affect bookmakers Early Prices that much – more punters will be after the good price before it shortens. Therefore, less chance of Me, Thee and B getting on at the value price?

GingerT,

Having data and being able to use it will be a huge problem for the many. If they cannot use speed ratings which are an order more basic then I doubt if any will truly be able to use sectionals fully. It is quite a change in mind set as well as a need to know some physics and maths. It won’t be quicker to use – there will be masses of data 80% of which may be irrelevant. The key data is well hidden and many will not spot it or have the time available to go through each day’s racing in detail.
The tipsters using crazy systems will not change much.
I have not been layed an "early price" in 2 years so don’t bother. You don’t put all the effort into sectional analysis for £10 on at an early price.

[Gingertipster]

It is very true that most punters will not understand how to use the sectionals Robert. But a larger minority (than it is now) will eventually figure it out. It doesn’t take many punters to spoil an edge. Even fewer if you’re unfortunate enough to be unable to take Early Odds. Much more likely the price will be gone by the time you can take it. With at least the possibility of rendering "Sectionals" worthless.

Value Is Everything

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