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Be careful if you use a Betfred shop.
I went in today and placed a £100 bet on the fav in the 2.30 Brighton. Looked a sure thing. I put the bet on right at the off. The good thing did it’s job and romped home.
When I went to collect I was told that the bet had been placed 8 seconds after the off and therefore not accepted. I complained to the staff, telephone customer service and the area manager but they refuse to pay.
Through this I have found that Betfred only inform you of a void bet if you come to collect – therefore if you lose and walk out your money is gone – but if you win they can still void it.
I am pretty furious that they wont pay a winning bet and even more annoyed that if the horse had lost i would have simply left the shop minus £100 and therefore in a no win situation.
I tried to explain its out of order to have this situation and bets should either be accepted or not at the point of handing the money over. They expalin its just the way their systems work.
I wont be using their shops any more
I don’t have any sympathy for punters who place bets just before the off, and I don’t have any sympathy for people who back favourites.
In fact, I make it a point of principle, on the rare occasions that I bet at a bookies to place my horse bet just as the hare is running in a greyhound race, to annoy and stymie the other punters.
A more remarkable thread title would have been: Betfred pay me in full without quibble, or settling errors, on production of my lucky 15 slip.
This is a thorny issue, made especially so by the fact that it’s a bet to nothing for Fred.
You might want to get the press involved. I suggest you get them to offer up the following question: Is it, or has it ever been, a disciplinary offence for a member of staff in your betting shops to alert a customer that their late losing bet was void?
- Total Posts 17716
If your bet was placed after the off then you can’t complain at having your stake refunded (though I think vigilant staff should be able to judge if you were standing at the counter, slip completed, for more than 8 seconds). Whether or not they’d have alerted you had your horse lost is a different matter.
One thing I would say is make sure they confirm the time at which the bet was placed and the time the race went off (have the latter verified elsewhere). I have taken prices numerous times with Betfred only to be told on collection that the odds had changed moments before the bet was struck and, when I have challenged them, they have refused to check the relevant times.
They, along with Totesport (who invoke rules only when it is financially beneficial to them and have shop managers who a) tell their friends which FOBTs are set to pay out and b) play FOBTs with said freinds whilst customers wait to be served), don’t feature on my christmas card list.
Clearly this is an unacceptable situation. If the bet wasn’t going to be honoured the cashier shouldn’t have accepted it. However there really isn’t any excuse for not having your bet on in plenty of time.
I did check the slip and it said 2:30:37. I checked the race off time with ATR and it states 2:30:29 (so 8 secs but only 7 clear secs to be picky and i dont know if the bookies clocks run the exact same time as official race time)
I was at the counter with slip in hand and completed just before the off, one cashier was busy, so i gave the slip to the other who dithered a little but got it on.
I know its a very close thing but I have placed numerous bets on the off and after and never had this. If they take your money surely that should be the deciding factor – not the computer.
Think i will report it to the press – any ideas or contacts?
Thanks
Should of stuck the nearest stool through the front of the nearest FOTB (after you got your stake back of course)
Now stop being so naive and write out 100 times in your best handwriting:
ALL BOOKIES ARE CNUTS
I did check the slip and it said 2:30:37. I checked the race off time with ATR and it states 2:30:29 (so 8 secs but only 7 clear secs to be picky and i dont know if the bookies clocks run the exact same time as official race time)
I was at the counter with slip in hand and completed just before the off, one cashier was busy, so i gave the slip to the other who dithered a little but got it on.
I know its a very close thing but I have placed numerous bets on the off and after and never had this. If they take your money surely that should be the deciding factor – not the computer.
Think i will report it to the press – any ideas or contacts?
Thanks
Did the cashier say "computer says no" when you presented your slip?
This issue needs to be tackled en masse by bookmakers with automated offslip procedures and was certainly dealt with in detail when I was Operations Manager at Ladbrokes. Managers should always have discretion whether to accept bets after the off (that is, to overrule the automated procedure). The ‘system’ does not decide whether bets are valid ~ only a staff member can do this. I always applied a rule of thumb that if a customer was not achieving an advantage by placing a bet late, thn there was no issue in accepting that bet. Fundamentally, a bet placed in good faith should be treated as such.
I’m not sure what the IBAS standing on this is, but clearly the above rule of thumb should be applied where possible. I don’t think going to the press, or the courts for that matter, will be productive as the bookmaker can fall back on a catch-all rule that bets placed after the off are void.
Thanks Rory – thats what i still get from Ladbrokes and will be using them in future, and yes when I presented the slip they said the computer says no. The only overide was from the area manager. They called the area manager and he refused to honour the bet as it was my responsability to get the bet on in time.
Its only when they scan the slip that its discovered.
what do they do with all the unclaimed void bets from punters who chuck their slip after the selection loses?
This is just plain wrong.
Over 20 years ago I worked for the North-West chain ‘Stanley.’
At that time the actual time of the race going ‘off’ was really irrelevant. It was when the ‘off-slip’ was put through the till that was the important thing. Upon the ‘off’ of each race, a slip was put through the machine by the cashier. The slip carried a number. A bet placed on a race which had already had the off-slip put through would carry a number higher than that of the off-slip. Bet would automatically be voided. This allowed cashiers to judge the size of queues and wait until all bets were taken before the slip was put through. Now, there’s no doubt people tried to abuse this, especially with dog races. I remember very clearly refusing people bets on dog races after they’d waited at the counter to see if their mutt got away to a good start.
I assume there’s no manual ‘off-slip’ these days?
I also had the great ‘pleasure’ of working for Stanleys in the early 90s while at college and we had the same off-slip procedure.
We had a rule of thumb that you could get your bet on until the horse had jumped the first or passed the first furlong on a middle/long-distance flat race. I never ceased to be amazed by the number of people who loitered until the off before putting their bet on – and most of these people were not asking for prices.I closed my account with Fred months ago, I rang up to place a bet [PC knackered] and they put me on ‘hold’…..True.
YORKIE
What you need to do is purposly place some big bets after the off on a considerable amount of different horses in a betfred shop. At the end of the day go and get your money back. It’s silly i know but they will not like it and you must stand up to the bully boys. Ladbrokes opperate the same though, i usually am prety good with times but on the odd ocassion i bet just after the off , and the trick is to allways ask if the bet is in time just to save dissapoinment and your money.My point of view is as many people bet around the off time there should be a sign up saying all bets are void after the off has been called.They will not put a sign up though because it affects proffits. A little while back Ladbrokes were offering betting in running at some horse meetings, havent seen it for a while, maybe they got there fingers burnt. Does’nt help though when the cashier is just not interested in the actual betting and does not want to fight your corner because they are more interested in watching sky with the volume on so high you can not here the commentry.I guess if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Mind you i would imagine that some people would love to get paid to watch tv all day.- Total Posts 17716
It’s been a long time since I was in a bookies but many a Saturday when it was busy bets were accepted just after the odd…….the last minute rush to the counter we have all experienced.
Many a time I didn’t get on being just that little bit to late.
Other times when the cashier you were attempting to get on with had closed the girl next would grab the bet and put it through for you..
Perhaps there is a change in the sytems now but then surely it would be an instant rejection if there was, making it impossible to place the bet.
8 seconds is a joke they took the bet they should pay…..simple as. But that’s only my opinion
From their point of view…where the problem lies and what the bookies have to protect themselves against, is…….what if that horse had been 500/1?
If you are going to take more than X amount out in any shop the bet must be confirmed by head office……..the cashier who took the bet unlesss there was a price on it would have no idea if the horse was 1/2 or 500/1.
So Betfred might stick to their guns and not pay…if they did they open the door to someone betting after the off and perhaps finding themself with a 50k payout that they had no chance of laying off or wouldn’t have taken in the first place
Two sides to every coin
230 at brighton was a 6 furlong race , no bets should have been taken after the off , you cant blame the cashier you should have been on in time.
some persistent late punters can be charged with attempting to defraud the bookie .
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