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Just a quick observation that Stewart Machin is trailing both Graham Goode and Derek Thompson in this poll.
I hope the poor man never finds this thread – if he does he’ll need to be put on suicide watch.
Anyone who hasn’t voted yet, please fix this nonsense result and give the poor chap a bit of a leg up.
I thought the same a couple of days ago RichK and having not voted thought I would get Stewart off the mark, unfortunately it’s not possible to vote in any of the polls now.
Interesting to read that Simon Holt considers Aussie, Jim McGrath, to be the commentator he looks up to. Many observers have noticed that Holt has tried to model his style on Jim McGrath – so much so that Richard Pitman calls Holt, "little croc."
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I just feel "jimbo" is turning into a bit of a scapegoat now, and some people’s "observations" seem a wee bit personal. If you don’t like his commentary write to the beeb, rather than collectivaly slagging him off on a forum rated as highly as this.
I obviously cannot speak for others but I can certainly say my criticism of Jim is not personal, I happen to like the chap very much and the occasions I have spoken to him I have always found him to be friendly, likeable, personable and good company.
Indeed it is the fact that I can remember how good Jim was and that I have always respected him as one of the best commentators around (indeed in his prime he was, in my view, the absolute best) that I feel I have to comment on how his standard of commentating is not as good as it was. I think even Jim himself recognises there has been a problem as I understand he was the one who wanted to rejoin the Racetech rosta to get the practice in.
Most of the great callers reach a peak and fall off. Peter O’S was a possible exception although it could be argued that he was starting to lose his edge in the final years, but he walked away before the drop in standard was too bad.
Others have gone on far too long and I think the prime example of that was Peter Bromley. In his prime he was on a par with the great Sir Peter. In the last couple of years, however, he did decline and personally I would rather he had retired a few years earlier. It was noticable that the large field handicaps were left for Lee McKenzie to cover. I also remembering listening to the last Cheltenham he covered and is was both embarassing and also very sad to listen to, as he made some very poor calls.
With regards letting the BBC know my views – belive me some of the letters I have written to them about various aspects of their racing coverage have been very frank and to the point.
2.05 Newbury……The Catt just called the wrong horse home almost all the way to the line…shocking.
just don’t see where people are going with it other than to say they want the man to lose his livelyhood
I defy you to find where I have called for that in this post.
Equally, I expect Mike Cattermole’s big error at Newbury of a few moments ago, where he mistook Kyber Kim for the rank outsider Levantine until after the last flight, will not go unnoticed by the whole of cyberspace (the Betfair fora are already alive). Here again, though, I don’t think any rational person is going to want to have him drummed out on the strength of that one error; but at the same time it would be folly to insist he has had the best of months after one or two sticky calls at Cheltenham previously.
If Mike cares deeply about his craft, and I have absolutely no reason on Earth to think that he does not, then he will be as mortified about the error as anyone who backed or laid either horse concerned and was inconvenienced by the muddle.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Yes, that was a right shambles, particularly as the two principals were well clear and had completely different colours.
I know it’s fashionable to knock Aussie Jim, but I don’t think he’s too bad at all if you can blot out the "as they sort themselves out" and "careering away" cliches. More practice would help him keep standards up. (Perhaps the BBC should let him loose on the increasing number of Soppysports Saturdays, doing bowls, darts and golf).
Re Peter Bromley, I enjoyed his commentaries, he was accurate enough for radio, and Lee MacKenzies as well later on. I’ve heard a few of Lysaght’s commentating efforts – embarrassingly bad,how does he keep his job?.
I just feel "jimbo" is turning into a bit of a scapegoat now, and some people’s "observations" seem a wee bit personal.
Quite the opposite – those observations remain firmly focussed on his abilities rather than anything about who he is or where he has come from.
If you don’t like his commentary write to the beeb, rather than collectivaly slagging him off on a forum rated as highly as this.
Again, it is hardly "slagging off" to suggest he hasn’t been at the very top of his game (which remains perfectly serviceable at best) on a few occasions in the last year or so, and to point out the examples of this. Slagging him off would be saying outright that he has no more to offer commentating (which is clearly not the case), without providing any grounds for so doing.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Just to throw something into the debate that I raised on my blog today.
Does the BBC actually need a staff commentator?
C4 are using the Racetech feed more and more, without including their regulars. For example Mark Slater at Bangor today and Lee McKenzie at Wincanton next week.
Why can’t the Beeb do the same, I would have thought it cheaper than paying a retainer?
My top 4 Racing Commentators have got to be:
-Mark Johnston
-John Hunt
-Darren Owen
-Richard HoilesPitty we never got these up North a bit more! :
Chances are your local tracks don’t ask for them more vocally when submitting their wishlists to Racetech!
Mind, Darren gets plenty of calls at Carlisle and Hamilton, doesn’t he? He’s also involved with the Vale of Lune point-to-point meeting at Whittington, though I can’t remember if that’s commentating as well as race-reading (he definitely does the latter there).
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
I enjoy listening to Richard Hoiles,Mark Johnson,Simon Holt and John Hunt.
I think Martin Harris is very good and should get more big meetings and to be fair Mark Slater did the Group 1 Sprint Cup at Haydock a few years ago.
As for Darren Owen he really does deserve some big meetings and is very good at building a race up to a big crushendo.
Looking at some of the slating some commentators are getting here, it’s putting me off pursuing the career!! I think I’ll be safer calling German commentaries along with the kettle-blowing Raleigh Gilbert!!
I was at Stratford on Monday for two reasons – the stable had Allez Frank running, and also my old horse Weststern was running in the second race, just as a snowstorm enveloped the course!! However, I was really impressed by the racecourse commentator, who, despite commentating in some appalling conditions (I couldn’t see the far side of the course), kept a very detailed commentary (although I didn’t hear him say that Weststern took a keen hold). The commentator was Mark Johnson I think – very good work indeed!! Even when the storms abated, he called Allez Franks race with extreme precision.
Darren – AngloGerman
People do respect good callers, Darren. Just look at the postive comments given to Richard Hoiles. The negatives tend to fall in to 3 areas: –
Mistakes
Such as GG who really doesn’t seem to care if he gets it wrong.Phrases
The Go zone – GG
Rose Hill (and many more) – JohnsonShouting
Mainly Johnson, but also Holt to a degree. They seem to think the commentary they are doing is as important as the race. Not every race is Dawn Run’s Gold Cup, lads.To be fair to Johnson, he’s an accurate caller and knows what he’s doing – but seems to come across very much like he is aware of this and therefore is smug, which is a shame because he’s otherwise very good.
Some people do love the Thommo type nonsense, which astounds me as it is utter garbage and commentating by numbers.
Richard Hoiles – and I’m not saying it because he posts on this site, it’s something I’ve thought for years – commentates in the way I want. Professional, clearly and with an understanding of the sport. My ideal commentator.
I agree with all of the above, particularly your comments about Richard Hoiles. He’s got the ability to get excited about a race without shouting, rather like the great Peter O’Sullyvan.
I think Graham Goode needs preserving, preferably in a jar but failing that a museum.
Graham, if you were ever any good, you aren’t now, please seek retirement.
Colin
I think Martin Harris is very good and should get more big meetings
He certainly is, though I think his current portfolio – which frees him up for nearly all winter weekends and large chunks of the summer in order to work on the point-to-point annual – suits his needs just fine.
It always makes me smile when he’s commentating at point-to-points, as he really rips into anything that’s unfit, can’t jump or is just generally inept, more so than under Rules.
and to be fair Mark Slater did the Group 1 Sprint Cup at Haydock a few years ago.
He also got the gig for the Welsh National 15 months ago, which was nice, as he gets sent to Chepstow often enough for their muck and nettles meetings. I appreciate his clear and unflustered delivery, though I’d concede he wouldn’t be for everyone who likes the decibel count ratcheted up in the last couple of furlongs.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
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