August 12, 2006 at 09:39 #3859seabirdParticipant
- Total Posts 2924
Some surprises in McLaren’s first squad.
Has Beckham deteriorated so much not to be included in the squad?
Alright, a new direction under a new captain and a chance for some younger players to breakthrough but if that is the thinking, why on earth is Phil Neville included?
ColinAugust 12, 2006 at 10:23 #89426
Seems to me that he may be trying to distance himself from the Sven era and Becks is taking the brunt.<br>I’m no great fan of DB’s nowadays but to leave him out of the england set up is madness, he is a great asset to the team even if he’s sitting on the edge of the subs bench. <br>90 odd caps, 50 ish as captain and a huge amount of experience. Surely he has something to give to any England squad, especially to the younger players who will have grown up idolising him, even if he is a fringe player.August 12, 2006 at 12:23 #89427cormack15Keymaster
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Very difficult for McLaren, given Beckham’s domineering influence over the England set up during Sven’s custodianship, to have the pop stars husband in the team under a new captain. I’m pretty sure he retains enough ability to be involved but I’m also sure that in leaving him out he’s acting in the best interests of the team. I think it’s Beckham’s baggage he wanted shot of rather than the footballer and obviously Phil Neville doesn’t have the same history.August 13, 2006 at 08:49 #89428
I don’t mind the dropping of Beckham, though I don’t think the door should be completely closed. I am more interested in how McClaren will have them playing. I would like to see a serious team put out against Greece with only minimal substitutions.
Beckham’s problem is that, though he is one of the best crossers of a ball we’ve ever had, he now lacks the pace to get into position to cross. Playing him on the right is a waste of his passing talents anyway, he needs to play in the centre, if anywhere. But because our managers are shackled to four at the back in all circumstances, there is little room for manouvre. Personally I would like to see three at the back, five across the middle, with Gerrard, Beckham and a holding player in the centre and then two up front. But if McClaren is committed to 4-4-2, then there is no place for Beckham due to his immobility.
On a slight tangent, interesting to read today that Gerrard has stated that the reason they didn’t win the World Cup was because they weren’t as good as they thought they were. Not Ronaldo, pitches or referees, just good old-fashioned lack of ability. Refreshing to read and perhaps one or two in the media might like to reflect on it.September 17, 2006 at 15:11 #89429
Hargreaves breaks leg, theres now 1 squad place going begging for a decent mid fielder. Know any?
What are the odds for a recall?September 19, 2006 at 01:04 #89430FlatSeasonLoverMember
- Total Posts 2065
3/1March 29, 2007 at 11:17 #89431
Anyone else hear the chanting at half time vs Andorra.
"there’s only 1 David Beckham…………."
how fickle we public are.March 29, 2007 at 14:57 #89432
Whilst England were poor against Andorra, the fans were worse. They are supposed to be "supporters" – although some of them obviously don’t appear to know the meaning of the word; shame on them.March 29, 2007 at 16:00 #89433
Supporters pay their money and are entitled to air their opinions. Football stadia are becoming silent places where polite applause is barely audible above the referee’s whistle. Players and managers are far too insulated and a little bit of abuse now and again does them some good. There is a long tradition of heckling and rough and ready British audiences going back centuries, from the theatre to football and long may it continue.
Being a ‘supporter’ means you support the club/country and those fans will be doing so long after McClaren and the overpaid overrated players he picked have retired to their Spanish villas. It does not mean you act as an unquestioning cheerleader. You support the player/manager up until the point when you become convinced they are no longer the people for the job. Then its up to them to prove you wrong. Its harsh but thats how it is.March 29, 2007 at 18:23 #89434
Of course the paying public have a right to voice their opinions. However, if those barracking the England squad so early in the Andorra game had an ounce of sense (not something one associates with football "supporters" ), they would have cheered on and encouraged the England team during the match and left the barracking until the end of the game if the outcome had merited it. Do people scream blue-murder at a jockey halfway through a race?<br>The sight of England "fans" hurling abuse at the players and squad at half time was depressing. <br>Some of these "fans" looked as though they’d just escaped from a violent offenders prison. I just hope they haven’t got children!<br>There’s no harm in criticism, but there was no need for the rabid ranting of the mob last night. Did they think that would HELP the England players?<br>I’ve paid money to watch (unknowingly) bad football games, bad plays and bad concerts, but I’ve never stood up, throat muscles bulging like Deidre Barlow and spewed foul mouthed obscenities at the participants. I’ve saved my boos until the end.<br>What a pity that the freeloading English football press will feed these jerks more ammunition in the coming days.
By the way Aranalde, I’ve never been to a football ground where "…polite applause is barely audible above the referee’s whistle ", and I’ve been to practically every league football ground in England.
(Edited by insomniac at 7:29 pm on Mar. 29, 2007)March 29, 2007 at 20:11 #89435DannyMember
- Total Posts 790
Insomniac, I agree with what your saying but don’t you think the booing was excusable considering the England team – a bunch of professional players getting paid millions for what they do where playing a bunch of part timers and despite the huge difference in quality the teams went in at half time 0-0, maybe i’m wrong but i think some players excel when under pressure from the fans for example Stevie G i don’t think he would have played as good as he did if the fans hadn’t been on the teams back. Plus the fans are getting frustrated we are ranked 6th in the world and look at are last few results beat Andorra 3-0 without ever looking a world class team, we got beat by Croatia and drew with Macedonia and Israel IMO changes need to be made Hargreaves, Downing, Robinson, Defoe/Johnson/Crouch are not good enough players if we want to win World Cups or European Championships.March 29, 2007 at 20:39 #89436
Perhaps my hyperbole got the better of me, though there is no denying that with the advent of all seater stadia, grounds are far quieter than they were in the days of terracing. Of course no-one barracks people during plays and concerts these days, football is one of the few arenas where this kind of expression is still socially acceptable. And there’s nothing wrong with it.
Insomniac, I completely disagree with you about the role of the supporter. Going to a football match has always been about letting off steam, shouting and abusing players as well as singing at the top of your voice and cheering. McClaren and his players are not performing and haven’t for a long time. McClaren is a little unlucky in that some of this is a hangover from the Sven era, but the fact is there have been some woefully inept selections, tactics and player performances and these things build up. It happens at club level all the time, disatisfaction grows with every poor performance until the booing starts earlier and earlier in the game. It ends either in the sacking of the manager or the team turning it around. I await either outcome.
I suspect there is something else going on here as well, that Danny has alluded to. These are players who we are frequently told are worth every penny of their Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£100,000 a week, who live their entire lives in a bubble, completely isolated from the rest of the world – you are not likely to meet them in the high street, the pub, on holiday. Supporters have taken all that in and subconciously expect a higher quality of performance than in times gone by, are less prepared to tolerate mediocrity and less likely to sympathise with them. I sense a growing disillusionment with the top players that is poisoning the atmosphere.
As for whether or not it helped the players, that is irrelevant. This was the only opportunity that supporters had to express how they felt, it is the most effective way of communicating with a bunch of prima donnas who are living on reputations not achievements. The Andorra game was a perfect vehicle for this expression since there was absolutely no chance we would lose it. Maybe they are not used to such hostility and maybe they didn’t realise how angry supporters have grown. I’m sure they do now.March 29, 2007 at 22:09 #89437FriggoMember
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In theory, I agree with those of you who say that the half-time booing was inappropriate. But had England not managed to score in the second half do you really think they could have used it as an excuse? These fans pay money and take time off work (well, those with jobs anyway) to go and watch England play, they don’t want to see their ‘world-beating’ superstars stuttering against the best XI out of a country of about 80 folk!
Although I do sometimes feel a bit sorry for the players; they are built up by the media to be the best thing ever to grace a football pitch, and when they peform just below their true standard they are adjudged to be complete failures. Then the fans, who listen to and follow the media like lambs sometimes, start to think the same, hence the premature, impatient booing.
Then I remember that these players earn up to Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£120,000 every single week, and I no longer feel sorry for them.March 30, 2007 at 00:47 #89438PompeteMember
- Total Posts 2391
In the thirty years or so that have passed since being taken along and carried into my first game. I’ve seen my team relagated and promoted into all four English divisions. I’ve travelled up and down the country to watch them, spent thousands, and can truly say felt every emotion going ranging from untold bliss to utter misery.
However, a little while ago while watching Manchester United vs Everton on Sky, a United player went to take a throw-in in front of the Everton fans and was met with what can only be described as a wall of hate (for the record I support neither team). Strange as it seems, I can still visualise one particular face from the crowd and put simply, I can’t put into words what this person must have been feeling. The anger he was displaying is something that I don’t think I’ve ever encounted. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
But, what I do know is that at that moment something changed in me. It feels like somethings gone. Again, put simply I’m not sure I want to be part of it anymore and while I agree that paying fans do have the right to express their views the current treatment of Steven Maclaren is a complete disgrace and in my view fuelled by a blood thirsty red top press.
The whole thing stinks and is just another example of the crude level of what means to be EnglishÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â these days.March 30, 2007 at 18:01 #89439
Well said Pompete.<br>I’m happy to agree that McClaren might not be up to the job, happy to agree that some (perhaps most) in the England squad aren’t up to it at the highest level. (Although I think Defoe is – he gave more in his two brief appearances in Israel and Barcelona than did Rooney ). I’m happy to agree that that fans have a right to vent their diapproval. But there is a (for want of a better word) "civilised" limit. The jerks in Barcelona exceeded that limit; just because you spend a fortune and take time off work to watch a football match doesn’t mean that anything you say or do is beyond criticism. They went too far.
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