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Those who are interested only in betting fodder would welcome this "initiative" with open arms.
Those, like most on this forum thankfully, who care about horse welfare, would be aghast at the suggestion.
I think it’s more to do with horses losing their footing too easily on the AW after jumping than the ground being firm
Well, they haven’t tried it on Ploytrack have they, wasn’t it only equitrack and fibresand – any accurate stats out there?
I agree that the old AW jumping was awful and unsafe but it has imprved since then. I remember paul nicholls talking about schooling his horses on a spongy fibersand cant remember the name of it. but he said he never has had a horse injured on it because it acts as a cushion.Admittedly its not at racing pace but it shows the progress AW has made. If AW racing isnt a solution stick underground heating in like football pitches and lets stop losing all these meetings.
I think everyone, the BHA included, needs to keep a sense of perspective here. I don’t believe the country has experienced such a period of intense cold since the winter of 1995. Based on the recent succession of mild, wet winters the current cold snap has to be seen as the exception rather than the rule.
Is it really so terrible to lose a week or so of jump racing once a decade, without having to re-invoke that ill-fated experiment called all-weather jumping?
I think tapeta would make an excellent surface for running jump races on and I am told a fall on it is more comforting than a well cushioned turf course.
Craig
Is it really so terrible to lose a week or so of jump racing once a decade, without having to re-invoke that ill-fated experiment called all-weather jumping?
Absolutely – bad weather is an occupational hazard of the jumps season.
Yes it is frustrating to have so many cancellations – but let’s get some perspective here.
Nobody is going to die as a result of the lack of jump racing.
As sure as night follows day a mild spell will follow a cold snap and in a few weeks we will have forgotten about this cold snap.
The only ones who will get really upset are the inveterate gamblers and if they are that desperate for a punt then they have the cartoon racing.
I think everyone, the BHA included, needs to keep a sense of perspective here. I don’t believe the country has experienced such a period of intense cold since the winter of 1995. Based on the recent succession of mild, wet winters the current cold snap has to be seen as the exception rather than the rule.
Is it really so terrible to lose a week or so of jump racing once a decade, without having to re-invoke that ill-fated experiment called all-weather jumping?
Agreed, a cold spell like this is very much the exception nowadays and if statistics mean anything it was due to happen sooner or later, much like the two dismal summers we’ve had after a prolonged series of unusually warm and dry ones
Can’t say a week off bothers me at all, and anyway the likelihood is extra meetings will be introduced to offset the cancellations once it warms up again. So look forward to them.
I’d be prepared to keep an open mind on AW jumping. By all means spend some time researching the effects of modern synthetics such as polytrack on the limbs of the leaping horse, but most certainly don’t rush into an ill-conceived idea that AW Jumping must be re-introduced due to the ‘devastation’ caused by that nasty cold snap in early 2009.
and was there summer jumping when AW jumping was in place? The calender has been expanded substantially so overall its not as if the opportunities arent there
As has been said, this is the first real cold snap for some time. Seemed to be far more cancellations 20 years ago i recall
We can live with it surely
FoF said
"and 90% punters don’t want it."
This is patently not true as more than 90% of punters are Sun-reading betting shop types who will bet on anything including dog racing, virtual racing and even worse, irish bumper races.
It would be more accurate to say "more than 90% of punters may express an opinion on this if you pressed them but really, couldn’t give a toss as long as they had something to punt on
As racing relies on the money it gets from the betting that this vast majority of punters plough in, you can’t be surpised if changes are made to the sport that may increase their ability to punt as such and this will also mean more AW courses, hurrah!
So give them a 6 track train set to back on but don’t bring back that dangerous crap. We don’t need it they can watch racing from all over the planet every day of the week somewhere in the world no matter if it’s freezing in the UK.
The problem with it is not the accidents, but he reason they happen…………they run anything with four legs (real bad horses) at them most of which are totally usless and a danger to themselves and others. Damned if I would run a half decent horse there and have some monkey cause him injury
It’s a must to have tracks and races where horses can learn the game and come up through the ranks. They can’t all start their careers at sunny Ascot but this doesn’t do that because any trainer worth is salt wouldn’t send a decent animal there.
For me it’s like puting a pub team into the premier league and expecting it to promote football……All weather hurdles is dangerous, boring, ugly to watch and does SFA to promote the face of racing IMO
Prior to last years Breeders Cup, Michael Dickinson, on the subject of the Santa Anita surface, claimed that AW surfaces are safe for National Hunt racing.
The interview was on ATR and he recalled Viking Flagship winning at Lingfield during his novice hurdle days.
Are there any stats available that provide evidence AW jump racing puts horses at a greater risk?
The best way to see if the new AW surfaces are safe for jumping is to have a trial run with them.
Another thing to look at is the design of hurdles which can be used.
The practice jump at Auteuil is on an AW surface and gets jumped pretty well at speed.
At the moment Kempton would be a really good venue to hold AW hurdle races and even Bumpers under the lights in this current climate and would be easy for jockeys to get to being held at 8-9pm.
The practice jump at Auteuil is on an AW surface and gets jumped pretty well at speed.
I think quite a few of the French practice jumps are on all weather (Pau is another one), and Germany have been holding an all weather steeplechase for years at the Honzrath course down in the south west of the country – indeed Forfeiter (ran at Ludlow last month) was third in the race last year.
I know AW jumping got a bad press a while back with the accidents at Southwell etc, but maybe it’s time (providing the obstacles and surfaces are safe) to bring it back.
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
I wouldn’t have a problem with them trialling it. It was dangerous around Lingfield on the old surface but that got lightning quick after a while and bears no resemblance to the current polytrack. Kempton is such a big wide track that it’s hard to see how it wouldn’t be safe there. I actually used to enjoy seeing hurdle racing on the AW.
I’m in two minds over it – first and foremost I ask why is there such a desperate need to stage [extra] meetings when some are lost through the force of nature? The losses are, after all, only on a temporary basis and nobody NEEDS racing 24/7.
However it is also prudent to recognise that AW surfaces have changed and improved dramatically in the 15+ years since AW jumping was scrapped – it may well be that with modern technology, this is now a field that can be explored and as such in which AW jumping may well be possible. After all plenty of NH trainers school on AW surfaces nowadays even though they don’t go at racing pace when doing so – that will be down to a lack of necessity to do so, not a lack of ability to do so. I’d prefer it if it were on a non-regular basis mind, even if it were to prove safe on the new modern surfaces.
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