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A seller and two claimers!

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  • #12285
    Tuffers
    Member
    • Total Posts 1402

    I don’t tend to grouse about the composition of racecards but today’s card at Catterick really takes the biscuit. A seller and two claimers all on the same card. I didn’t even realise you were allowed to stage three events like this on the same card. Does anyone know the thinking behind this?

    #242476
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6226

    Tuffers

    I’m not bothered by sellers, but of the lower class race types on the flat it’s claimers that catch my eye. All they are effectively is ‘another way of handicapping’, just a bit easier to crack, and presumably you wouldn’t have said anything if the two races had been 0-85 and a 0-65 handicaps? The former is arguably the strongest race on the card. In addition they do at least give an alternative to maidens for lightly raced horses.

    As far as I can tell from the BHA website there is no specific restriction on sellers and claimers on a card. The only conditions I can see relate to provision for Maiden and Novice races.

    Rob

    #242481
    Tuffers
    Member
    • Total Posts 1402

    Tuffers

    I’m not bothered by sellers, but of the lower class race types on the flat it’s claimers that catch my eye. All they are effectively is ‘another way of handicapping’, just a bit easier to crack, and presumably you wouldn’t have said anything if the two races had been 0-85 and a 0-65 handicaps? The former is arguably the strongest race on the card. In addition they do at least give an alternative to maidens for lightly raced horses.

    As far as I can tell from the BHA website there is no specific restriction on sellers and claimers on a card. The only conditions I can see relate to provision for Maiden and Novice races.

    Rob

    Hi Rob

    Claimers are interesting from a buyer’s perspective but I take my hat off to you if they are a profitable betting medium for you.

    I’ll take a 0-65 handicap over a claimer any day :wink:

    Tuffers

    #242509
    Irish Stamp
    Member
    • Total Posts 3177

    A maiden consists of about 5 triers and 8 in there just to make up the place terms.

    #242512
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6226

    Make that 5 with a chance of winning and 8 with no chance. In most cases the 8 are trying hard enough, they just aren’t very good.

    Claimers are much the same in theri make-up. The advantage is that in most cases there is more form available to analyse the 5.

    Rob

    #242516
    Tom
    Member
    • Total Posts 205

    Which contines to prove my point quantity over quality,

    #242520
    indocine
    Member
    • Total Posts 489

    I’d happily replace every handicap with a claimer. I’d probably let the BHA cappers write the condition book instead of just plain sacking them. :)

    #242530
    Glenn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1989

    A seller, a claimer and two fallers as it turned out.

    Still, it was one more seller than Chepstow managed.

    Will a jockey have to die before racing’s rulers stop sabotaging their own tracks in the name of bookies’ profits?

    Add to that the BHA demoting Fred to runner-up in the ‘Guy called Goodwin who we can’t believe they’re letting him walk away with the money stakes’ and, all in all, it’s not been a great week for our noble sport.

    Have we actually reached rock bottom yet?

    #242539
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6226

    Which contines to prove my point quantity over quality,

    Tom

    No, all it proves is that the spread of horses means that there are more horses near the bottom than the top. It wouldn’t matter if you cut the number of horses in training by a quarter, a half or 9/10ths, you would still have the vast majority of horses below the mid point of top rating and lowest rating.

    Since all horses that are bred start from the same level, i.e. unknown, then reducing the number of horses bred would not guarantee better quality. Neither for that matter would pruning out horses by virtue of ‘non-achievement’ at the end of their 2 year old or three year old career since horses reach their peak at different rates.

    You offer much comment, most of it apparently setting otu to disagree with as many people as possible. What you have done very of is to offer any way of reaching your ‘quality before quantity’ utopia.

    Rob

    #242543
    Tuffers
    Member
    • Total Posts 1402

    A seller, a claimer and two fallers as it turned out.

    Still, it was one more seller than Chepstow managed.

    Will a jockey have to die before racing’s rulers stop sabotaging their own tracks in the name of bookies’ profits?

    Add to that the BHA demoting Fred to runner-up in the ‘Guy called Goodwin who we can’t believe they’re letting him walk away with the money stakes’ and, all in all, it’s not been a great week for our noble sport.

    Have we actually reached rock bottom yet?

    Well it’s good to see Fiona Needham doing her usual bang up job of preparing safe racing ground. Did she need to leave a sprinkler on to achieve today’s result or was the water provided by Mother Nature this time?

    #242546
    wordfromthewise
    Participant
    • Total Posts 467

    I think the road to quality over quantity is going to be messy but perhaps not as messy as culling horses etc as mentioned elsewhere in the prizemoney posts.

    At the risk of spoiling a lot of people’s fun,the reality may be that in sharp contrast to last weeks racing this weeks racing would probably serve the industry better overall if it didn’t exist not least because it probably doesn’t pay for itself and the money spent putting it on could be better spent for the industry for example promoting even by subsidising entry to other meetings of better quality that may result in more people being attracted to the sport through which the industry will be better off in the longer term.

    With the Levy about to be descimated by bookies escaping offshore the industry will almost certainly be facing a greatly reduced cake to be divided up in future, therefore jobs will be lost and businesses will close ( studs,yards,bookies etc) until the industry finds a new sustainable level from which it may be able to grow healthily again.The best way of doing this is IMO to serve up as attractive a product as it can as often as it can even if the price of this is that hard decisions have to be taken elsewhere.

    It will take a few seasons before the ‘surplus’ horses in the system are phased out ( without culling) but future race programming will cease to cater for them and therefore these horses will not be bred.

    It won’t and can’t be Cheltenham and Royal Ascot everyday but racing everyday and cutting the four weeks of ‘dross’ inbetween the ‘festivals’ by at least half is the way forward to putting the sport on a sustainable footing.

    #242547
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    No, all it proves is that the spread of horses means that there are more horses near the bottom than the top. It wouldn’t matter if you cut the number of horses in training by a quarter, a half or 9/10ths, you would still have the vast majority of horses below the mid point of top rating and lowest rating.

    Since all horses that are bred start from the same level, i.e. unknown, then reducing the number of horses bred would not guarantee better quality. Neither for that matter would pruning out horses by virtue of ‘non-achievement’ at the end of their 2 year old or three year old career since horses reach their peak at different rates.

    That’s it in a nutshell Rob. A point completely lost on those who would have the sport marginalised it seems. Every sport has its elite superstars, the chosen few at the very top. Horseracing is no different, whatever the numbers.

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