December 1, 2020 at 00:35 #1512688GladiateurParticipant
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Timeform have been banging on about how Envoi Allen is the most exciting horse in training. I’m sure that there are many who would disagree, especially at Seven Barrows.
So, one word: Envoi or Shishkin? Or you may think of an even better prospect…December 1, 2020 at 05:35 #1512690Cork All StarParticipant
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I know the three day/four day Cheltenham debate is sterile – but it is a pity they will dodge each other.December 1, 2020 at 09:27 #1512695He Didnt Like GroundParticipant
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Hmmmmmmmm ….. To early to decide so I’ll do what Humpty Dumpty did ….without the great fallDecember 1, 2020 at 11:13 #1512699JasolongParticipant
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I think we are very lucky to have 2 of the best novice chasers I have ever seen around at the same time. I think both will go on to be superstars in their respective divisions but unlikely to ever meet.
Personally I’m a sucker for 2 milers as I just love the speed they go at over their fences it’s incredible to watch so I’m very excited for shishkinDecember 1, 2020 at 14:50 #1512721Nathan HughesModerator
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Shishkin has more chance imo of dominating the 2 mile division as the Gold Cup and races of that kind of nature seem to take more out of themMember since March 2008December 1, 2020 at 17:36 #1512746befairParticipant
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Staying chases are more prestigious/lucrative/competitive, so harder for one horse to dominate, so maybe Shishkin. Both are exciting, but we’ve seen many morning glories beforeDecember 1, 2020 at 19:35 #1512760FinalFurlong91Participant
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He could be the bext kauto starDecember 3, 2020 at 11:37 #1512871Mike007Participant
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As of right now, Shishkin.
There is an element of doubt about Envoi Allen’s stamina for 26 and a half furlongs for me, whereas it looks like you know what trip Shishkin is going to be good at. So with the possibility in my mind of a future Champion Chase winner v a future Ryanair winner, I’d take the Champion Chase winner.December 3, 2020 at 12:17 #1512884greenasgrassParticipant
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Well Shishkin over Envoi Allen, because of what Mike said.
But I’m going to be thran with my one word answer and say:
Energumene.December 3, 2020 at 13:23 #1512890shipithollabollaParticipant
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I’d say Envoi Allen on raw ability right now.
It’s nice to be in this position where they’re both sound and all the dreams are ahead. Amusing looking at all the Request-A-Bets the firms have up: Shishkin to win the Arkle and the next 3 Champion Chases, how many Gold Cups will Envoi Allen win? And so on.
We’ve gone through plenty of potential superstars who have been cut short since I started following racing: Gloria Victis, Monsignor, Barton, Neon Wolf, Fayonagh, Samcro etc. I just hope these two have full careers while staying sound and genuine.
I think both Envoi Allen and Shishkin have potential to stay 3m+ on pedigrees and look sensible enough animals who could be trained for it. But on what we’ve seen so far, they’re both effective 2m – 2m 4f but I’d make Envoi Allen pretty skinny in a match race at either distance, or a flat race over shorter. I think Abacadabras has more basic speed than almost any hurdler around right now, so Envoi Allen’s display in ‘walking the dog’ and doing him for tactical pace in the Royal Bond last year was arguably his best win so far in my book. Meanwhile Shishkin (albeit after a bit of a troubled run) was clearly outpaced mid-race in the Supreme before his stamina and good attitude pulled it out of the fire.
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