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I’m not going to give a long answer (too tipsy for that) but my reading of the form book suggests that Master Minded was underrated and the "Holy Trinity" of Moscow Flyer, Azertyuiop and Well Chief overrated.
Still, what do I know?
As much as anyone elses my book,
As Dudley ‘ahhhh, grand lad’ Smith said, differing opinions are what makes for horse racing.
As much as anyone elses my book,
As Dudley ‘ahhhh, grand lad’ Smith said, differing opinions are what makes for horse racing.
Or, as it has otherwise been expressed, racing is "an inexact science".
Ginger, I moved no goalposts, I just didn’t put any up in the first place. It was the Master Minded ‘conundrum’ that instigated my post, not the thread title – I should have made that clearer.
Fair enough Joe, I thought your post was about the thread.
Value Is EverythingI’d accommodate all you could at 9 ,s kind sir.
I suppose it would be wiser to be on him at 9/1 than on one of the occasions he was beaten at odds on.
What if the ground comes up soft though? Most of Master Minded’s form is on a sound surface and his only win on soft was when he went off 3/10 fav and had to be driven to hold off Big Zeb by a head.
That day at Punchestown saw Masterminded rated 186 on official ratings and Big Zeb was shown as being rated 159 that day. Big Zeb was raised 3lbs after that race and Master Minded was dropped 8lbs to 178, which was a mark he would never be rated higher than again.
That race stands as a clear watershed in Master Minded’s ratings and he would lose his crown the following year at Cheltenham when old rival Big Zeb won and the horse rated 12lbs and upwards clear on the ratings started 4/5 fav but could finish only 4th.
Master Minded wouldn’t win the Fantasy Tingle Creek, not even with Magnus Magnusson on his back and a free pass.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Three of the Timeform team give their verdict
Tony McFadden – Moscow Flyer
They say that ratings are as much about opportunity as ability, and there is no doubt that Moscow Flyer, having crossed swords with two top-notch rivals in Azertyuiop and Well Chief, certainly had the chance to post a stratospheric rating. However, even in beating a couple of the top-two milers seen this century, you always got the feeling that Moscow Flyer was keeping a bit back for himself, never fully extended – at the peak of his powers, anyway – to keep up his remarkable unbeaten-when-completing record. Perhaps that’s why he lasted for so long, doing what so few horses have done by winning a championship race at the age of 11. Could anything really have given Moscow Flyer weight and a beating under his optimum conditions? Not to my mind.
Keith Melrose – Sprinter Sacre
We’re already in danger of forgetting how good Sprinter Sacre was- how good he just might still be. Let’s not. He was in many senses jumps racing’s Frankel. Would 8 lb be enough to bring him back to Moscow Flyer? Would 10 lb give Azertyuiop or Master Minded a chance? Really? Watch him pulverise Sizing Europe in the Champion Chase, 19 lengths without even trying, and tell me again.
We might never see the best of Sprinter Sacre in real life, but we can do in a fantasy Tingle Creek. Remember that ‘p’ that sat beside his monstrous 192 rating before his health issues struck. Remember how high he might have gone with a worthy rival, a benefit that Moscow Flyer had twice over. He is one of those rare beasts whose superiority is so vast that half a stone or a stone of weight simply would not matter.
Joe Rendall – Master Minded
As this is a fantasy race we must assume that all runners turn up at the peak of their powers – for Master Minded that was as a five-year-old, when running out a thrilling 19-length winner of the Champion Chase on just his fourth UK start. His final victory that year was a 10-length rout in the Tingle Creek, showing trademark accuracy at his fences and an abundance of natural speed. If that Master Minded lined up at Sandown for the aforementioned race, it’s him I’d be backing at the likely prices in receipt of weight from Moscow Flyer and Spinter Sacre. Those two rarely looked out of their comfort zones but I have no doubt they would face a new challenge if Ruby was allowed to dictate on Master Minded.
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