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Wrong decision imo.
It’s the horses hooves on the ground, not the jockeys feet.Value Is EverythingShould be ten. Women aren’t as strong as men nor have the same sporting instincts, with only a couple of exceptions
Should be ten. Women aren’t as strong as men nor have the same sporting instincts, with only a couple of exceptions
TWM,
Take a look at the form ratings horses run to for female proffesional jockeys, compared to the ratings put up by the same horses under proffesional male jockeys.Value Is EverythingWouldn’t have it in the UK as it sends out the wrong message and many female jockeys have proven they’re more than capable of cutting the mustard. However, given that only one French Group race has ever been taken by a female jockey (at Vichy no less) then clearly there’s still an issue where proactive measures are required. Once the issue is rectified then the allowance ought to be eroded then removed. But for now, in the context of French racing, I’d say it’s a good move.
I fail to see how it’s ok in one country and not another. Unless of course we are getting into the realms of tick box BBC style quotas. What next ? An allowance for black jockeys to “promote diversity”
Just as sexist attitudes were improving here… this is going to reinforce or reintroduce sexism in British Racing in future. France’s move will have a detrimental effect on female riders in Britain. Owners will see women getting 4 lbs in France and 0 lbs here and think their horse will have a disadvantage when putting up a lady rider. They might disagree with the 4 lbs, but 2 or 1 lb can be critical. Owners don’t want their horses to run at a disadvantage; particularly a disadvantage they can do something about.
Value Is EverythingAgree a lot with GingerT on this, but from a punters view its easy; back the Female Riders in France, they will be winning the races with an Sex-Allowance.
Best Wishes
SilkJust as sexist attitudes were improving here… this is going to reinforce or reintroduce sexism in British Racing in future. France’s move will have a detrimental effect on female riders in Britain. Owners will see women getting 4 lbs in France and 0 lbs here and think their horse will have a disadvantage when putting up a lady rider. They might disagree with the 4 lbs, but 2 or 1 lb can be critical. Owners don’t want their horses to run at a disadvantage; particularly a disadvantage they can do something about.
Personally, I don’t think that will happen. I don’t think it will change too many opinions. If it did you are making an argument for the allowance to be introduced here as well.
Those who quote the likes of Gordon and Turner as success stories how many more can you name? I guess an enthusiast would be lucky to name a dozen from around the world. Given the number of women riders that figure is ridiculously small.
I don’t see this as such a bad idea in fact as it seems to have rattled Chris Cook’s cage I am beginning to see it as a very good idea.
Personally, I don’t think that will happen. I don’t think it will change too many opinions. If it did you are making an argument for the allowance to be introduced here as well.
Certainly not arguing for an allowance, Stilvi; far from it. If Blacks were predjudiced against within Racing wouldn’t make it right to give them an allowance. I’m not saying it’ll change attitudes overnight, but over time – few years – probably will.
Value Is EverythingJust as sexist attitudes were improving here… this is going to reinforce or reintroduce sexism in British Racing in future. France’s move will have a detrimental effect on female riders in Britain. Owners will see women getting 4 lbs in France and 0 lbs here and think their horse will have a disadvantage when putting up a lady rider. They might disagree with the 4 lbs, but 2 or 1 lb can be critical. Owners don’t want their horses to run at a disadvantage; particularly a disadvantage they can do something about.
Personally, I don’t think that will happen. I don’t think it will change too many opinions. If it did you are making an argument for the allowance to be introduced here as well.
Those who quote the likes of Gordon and Turner as success stories how many more can you name? I guess an enthusiast would be lucky to name a dozen from around the world. Given the number of women riders that figure is ridiculously small.
I don’t see this as such a bad idea in fact as it seems to have rattled Chris Cook’s cage I am beginning to see it as a very good idea.
I think Chris Cook’s idea of giving an extra percentage of the win prize money to connections for a winner ridden by a female jockey is a much better idea than this allowance.
I think the allowance is unfair on the men and pretty insulting to the girls. It’s all but telling someone like Josephine Gordon that she isn’t as good as a man and she certainly is. Hugo Palmer seems to think so too. Not to mention the likes of Nina Carberry, Hayley Turner, Katie Walsh ….. .
Just as sexist attitudes were improving here… this is going to reinforce or reintroduce sexism in British Racing in future. France’s move will have a detrimental effect on female riders in Britain. Owners will see women getting 4 lbs in France and 0 lbs here and think their horse will have a disadvantage when putting up a lady rider. They might disagree with the 4 lbs, but 2 or 1 lb can be critical. Owners don’t want their horses to run at a disadvantage; particularly a disadvantage they can do something about.
Personally, I don’t think that will happen. I don’t think it will change too many opinions. If it did you are making an argument for the allowance to be introduced here as well.
Those who quote the likes of Gordon and Turner as success stories how many more can you name? I guess an enthusiast would be lucky to name a dozen from around the world. Given the number of women riders that figure is ridiculously small.
I don’t see this as such a bad idea in fact as it seems to have rattled Chris Cook’s cage I am beginning to see it as a very good idea.
I think Chris Cook’s idea of giving an extra percentage of the win prize money to connections for a winner ridden by a female jockey is a much better idea than this allowance.
I think the allowance is unfair on the men and pretty insulting to the girls. It’s all but telling someone like Josephine Gordon that she isn’t as good as a man and she certainly is. Hugo Palmer seems to think so too. Not to mention the likes of Nina Carberry, Hayley Turner, Katie Walsh ….. .
You have named four and stopped which is exactly the point I was making.
Just as sexist attitudes were improving here… this is going to reinforce or reintroduce sexism in British Racing in future. France’s move will have a detrimental effect on female riders in Britain. Owners will see women getting 4 lbs in France and 0 lbs here and think their horse will have a disadvantage when putting up a lady rider. They might disagree with the 4 lbs, but 2 or 1 lb can be critical. Owners don’t want their horses to run at a disadvantage; particularly a disadvantage they can do something about.
Personally, I don’t think that will happen. I don’t think it will change too many opinions. If it did you are making an argument for the allowance to be introduced here as well.
Those who quote the likes of Gordon and Turner as success stories how many more can you name? I guess an enthusiast would be lucky to name a dozen from around the world. Given the number of women riders that figure is ridiculously small.
I don’t see this as such a bad idea in fact as it seems to have rattled Chris Cook’s cage I am beginning to see it as a very good idea.
I think Chris Cook’s idea of giving an extra percentage of the win prize money to connections for a winner ridden by a female jockey is a much better idea than this allowance.
I think the allowance is unfair on the men and pretty insulting to the girls. It’s all but telling someone like Josephine Gordon that she isn’t as good as a man and she certainly is. Hugo Palmer seems to think so too. Not to mention the likes of Nina Carberry, Hayley Turner, Katie Walsh ….. .
You have named four and stopped which is exactly the point I was making.
They need to be given greater opportunities it isn’t that they aren’t good enough. Trainers / owners need to be putting females on good horses. It’s the attitudes of connections that are holding the girls back. Giving the girls an allowance isn’t the answer.
I fail to see how it’s ok in one country and not another. Unless of course we are getting into the realms of tick box BBC style quotas. What next ? An allowance for black jockeys to “promote diversity”
Don’t even go there, someone will think that it is a good idea. Of course, Eduardo Pedroza has done pretty well in France and Germany
Just as sexist attitudes were improving here… this is going to reinforce or reintroduce sexism in British Racing in future. France’s move will have a detrimental effect on female riders in Britain. Owners will see women getting 4 lbs in France and 0 lbs here and think their horse will have a disadvantage when putting up a lady rider. They might disagree with the 4 lbs, but 2 or 1 lb can be critical. Owners don’t want their horses to run at a disadvantage; particularly a disadvantage they can do something about.
Personally, I don’t think that will happen. I don’t think it will change too many opinions. If it did you are making an argument for the allowance to be introduced here as well.
Those who quote the likes of Gordon and Turner as success stories how many more can you name? I guess an enthusiast would be lucky to name a dozen from around the world. Given the number of women riders that figure is ridiculously small.
I don’t see this as such a bad idea in fact as it seems to have rattled Chris Cook’s cage I am beginning to see it as a very good idea.
Young Gordon has won an apprentice Title, no more. Hayely shared an apprentice title. There are a number of lads who won apprentice titles in UK and Ireland and we have rarely hear from them again in big races. Even Oisin Murphy has a quietish year when he lost his claim. At least Gordon is with Palmer . Either way, it is way too early to class her as a success story, yet. Remember Sammy Jo Bell? Amy Ryan? Granted Sammy should be back from injury soon.
Everyone is raving about Nina Carberry. Yes, she is very good.But, she never won more than 39 races in a season in Ireland, and although she is handy ridden in fence races, a lot of her races were in bumpers and handicaps. She has won Group 1s and Group 2’s but they were only in Irish NH Flat races where she is only up against apprentices. Those wins were a long time ago. Her Cheltenham wins, as impressive as they are , are mostly in amateur handicap races. To be fair, she did win the Irish Grand National. While this seems to exaggerate the media claims of her brilliance, it should be taken into account that she has achieved what she achieved with far lesser opportunities. Alas, he has some of the best people behind her with JP McManus giving her rides and she has had Noel Meade and Gordon Elliot supporting her.
Katie Walsh is an amateur jockey, a lot of her races come in the form of NH Flat races. Of course, she has won the Irish Grand National too and came 3rd at the Aintree GN on her father’s horse. She rarely ride more than 130 races in Ireland in a year, but to be fair to her, she does win some very good handicaps. Her record in the UK is nothing to write home about at all, though she did win a Group 3 at Cheltenham years ago. Again, Mullins supports her, and Ted Walsh is good for the odd handicapper
So do the media and some people over hype their success and not think about the kind of races that they actually do win? They are experienced girls, they are as good as many male Pros, but a lot of their wins are in amateur races and NH flat races with the Pros can not ride in (in Ireland)
Just as sexist attitudes were improving here… this is going to reinforce or reintroduce sexism in British Racing in future. France’s move will have a detrimental effect on female riders in Britain. Owners will see women getting 4 lbs in France and 0 lbs here and think their horse will have a disadvantage when putting up a lady rider. They might disagree with the 4 lbs, but 2 or 1 lb can be critical. Owners don’t want their horses to run at a disadvantage; particularly a disadvantage they can do something about.
Personally, I don’t think that will happen. I don’t think it will change too many opinions. If it did you are making an argument for the allowance to be introduced here as well.
Those who quote the likes of Gordon and Turner as success stories how many more can you name? I guess an enthusiast would be lucky to name a dozen from around the world. Given the number of women riders that figure is ridiculously small.
I don’t see this as such a bad idea in fact as it seems to have rattled Chris Cook’s cage I am beginning to see it as a very good idea.
I think Chris Cook’s idea of giving an extra percentage of the win prize money to connections for a winner ridden by a female jockey is a much better idea than this allowance.
I think the allowance is unfair on the men and pretty insulting to the girls. It’s all but telling someone like Josephine Gordon that she isn’t as good as a man and she certainly is. Hugo Palmer seems to think so too. Not to mention the likes of Nina Carberry, Hayley Turner, Katie Walsh ….. .
You have named four and stopped which is exactly the point I was making.
They need to be given greater opportunities it isn’t that they aren’t good enough. Trainers / owners need to be putting females on good horses. It’s the attitudes of connections that are holding the girls back. Giving the girls an allowance isn’t the answer.
Trainers need to win races for their owners. They are not there to ensure the diversity of the sport. If it happens that a girls shows promise , good. But trainers should not be bullied into having to use jockies that may not be of their choice. A good female jockey will make it hard to ignore,just like the boys. Hugo Palmer, for instance, is at a very important step in his career. He managed to be selective in his choice of jockies last year and it reaped benefit. She got many top jockies to ride for him (outside of the Godolphin/Qatar/ Juddmonte horses) Josephine Gordon happened to be one of the jocks that he used to great effect. Fair play to her, she took her chances. But Gordon made using her a no brainer through hard work. Even after John Berry’s rant about Muslim owners, (it had the desired effect) Gordon, when she got and gets her chance to ride a Godolpin horse, they often win. Her first race and win for Godolpin got huge publicity – fair due to her.
Had a look at Hayley Turner’s record from 2006 up to her retirement in 2014, which is the period she rode without a claim.
I’ve also applied the 4.4 lbs French allowance to the same record for comparison. The pound per length adjustment is made using the general BHA scale detailed on their website.
Of course the outcome of a horse race is not a pure exercise in weight concession, there are many other variables involved, but the table does show in general that the French allowance applied uniformly to all female jockeys in the UK would be very unfair to the boys in my opinion.
I’d be off to France if I were Hayley.
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