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Not sure on some of those ratings GoldenMiller??
Thistlecrack was impressive and did it nicely but was it as impressive as many people are making out?
Cue Card was a major disappointment but for me there was plenty of question marks beforehand…his form on right hand courses over jumps now reading 3 wins from 11 starts…the better ground as that was one of the excuses for his below par effort in the Charlie Hall…and with the subsequent news on Coneygree what was the worth of his win at Haydock?
Silviniaco Conti’s overall form over the last two seasons has been dreadful…his closeness at the end after he’d dropped off and looked well beaten leaves a question mark for me…
Time of the race also leaves me wondering…I’m no expert on race times, sectionals etc…but the 131 rated winner of the Feltham winning in a similar time leaves me wondering too…especially as he would have been well beaten but for fallers…
Would still wonder how his jumping would hold up if something could serve it up longer than SC could for today, especially at Cheltenham which will be a tougher test…
That said, he’s improving with every run…has won on different courses, different goings, no worries there…only problem is the two horses I think are capable of lowering his colours at Cheltenham are both currently on the sidelines and both probably a good bet not to get to the start of the GC which leaves him very much the one to beat now!
When you are looking to crown a hero a sense of balance is often an uneasy fit.
On bare form it would be very difficult to give Thistlecrack a high rating. It wouldn’t be a surprise if Cue Card has run a stone below his best. That sort of rating would fit in with the close proximity of the others. It could be that the winner didn’t have to run to much more than 165. Then you are left guessing as to how much was actually left in the tank. Who knows whether he could have picked up again and found another 5-10 lengths?
I was expecting Josses Hill to at least mix it up front but Jacob almost immediately waved a white flag. In terms of impact he may as well have not turned up but that said even he wasn’t beaten that far.
Surely the pressure on the front end and consequently the jumping test will be significantly greater in a Gold Cup?
Obviously, having already backed him I hope Thistlecrack does double up in March but I wouldn’t be counting any winnings just yet.
That’s probably the best Cue Card can do on that ground. He hasn’t won on it for more than 5 years (last victory was on his chasing debut in a 4-runner field where Silv Conti was 3rd). Since then he has had 8 races on good ground.
I’ve been critical of Scu’s handling of Thistlecrack but he rode the others to sleep yesterday. Seems odd to say about an imperious World Hurdle winner, but if there is a potential weakness in him it just might be stamina (I doubt it, but had I been involved in tactical planning in one of the other camps yesterday, that’s what I would have tried to exploit.)
As it was, Scu took it up coming past the stands, went a couple clear as though he was serious about it and then smoothly settled him again at a steady pace which kept the field within about three lengths first to last until five out when he let out a bit of rein and everything – everything behind him went from running on the bridle to being badly outpaced. Not only does Thistlecrack jump and stay, but he has speed which at stayer’s level could be called explosive especially as he quickens immediately with nothing more than being given his head (a hallmark of his mature career).
Too much attention is being paid to the proximity of the remainder which was on sufferance only. I’d say being steadied into two out cost Thistlecrack maybe three lengths then three or four more at the last. Mark him up 7 for those and how much more for winning eased down I’ll leave up to you.
Perhaps the most telling part of the race was his run between second last and the last when he was pulling farther away with every stride. Had Scu been daft enough to try a Daryl and fire him at the final fence he’d have been ten or twelve clear jumping it.
Whatever the merits of the others on the day, they all had the advantage of a relatively easy pace. They all conserved energy. They were all entitled to quicken in a race for the finish and had Thistlecrack not been in the field we’d be hailing a tremendous climax in a small field King George. The reality is that when it came to the quickening, Thistlecrack was a class apart and put the race to bed in half a furlong with his rider sitting still.
This is some animal.
I’m trying not to get too excited prematurely but I’ve got 8/1 thistlecrack for KG and 13/2 Yanworth for Chistmas hurdle!
I think you should get excited
Told you to get excited, very well done Jasolong
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a jumps horse enjoy showing off and demolishing his rivals as much as Thistlecrack seems to, feats he showed in bundles yesterday. Stunning performance.
As one of the doubters (mainly because staying hurdling is relatively uncompetitive) I’m delighted to be proved wrong. The way Thistlecrack accelerated away and left the rest of the field floundering was most impressive. Slight concern that the small field made it easier for him to dominate, and if CC wasn’t at his best, the bare form isn’t great. But delighted for the Tizzards, and thought Native River was almost (not quite) equally impressive today.
And can dream about a showdown this time next year between Thistlecrack and Douvan; hard to see either of them beaten before them
And maybe Altior as well!!!!As one of the doubters (mainly because staying hurdling is relatively uncompetitive) I’m delighted to be proved wrong. The way Thistlecrack accelerated away and left the rest of the field floundering was most impressive. Slight concern that the small field made it easier for him to dominate, and if CC wasn’t at his best, the bare form isn’t great. But delighted for the Tizzards, and thought Native River was almost (not quite) equally impressive today.
And can dream about a showdown this time next year between Thistlecrack and Douvan; hard to see either of them beaten before them
And maybe Altior as well!!!!Another here who backed Cue Card. But way he rounded the bend reminded me of Kauto stretching away from his rivals. The thing is he was going away from one of the best in the last 10 years. Talking to someone today about Thistle who backed him and he didn’t seem overly impressed so I told him to give his head a shake
Yanworth 13/2
Thistle crack 8/1
Can’t believe it!Great stuff
Congrats
Nice!
Any word on Paul Nichols’ reaction to Conti’s run? Thought he ran a screamer and shaped like a horse after much further; just outpaced turning for home before staying on dourly after the last. What comes next? Another crack at the National on better ground and perhaps less weight? Another go at the Gold Cup? A Stayers Hurdle entry? Or skip Cheltenham again and go for the Bowl?
They should drop him back to 2m 5f IMO, given the way he routed the Ascot Chase last season. The Melling another option.
Not sure on some of those ratings GoldenMiller??
Thistlecrack was impressive and did it nicely but was it as impressive as many people are making out?
Cue Card was a major disappointment but for me there was plenty of question marks beforehand…his form on right hand courses over jumps now reading 3 wins from 11 starts…the better ground as that was one of the excuses for his below par effort in the Charlie Hall…and with the subsequent news on Coneygree what was the worth of his win at Haydock?
Silviniaco Conti’s overall form over the last two seasons has been dreadful…his closeness at the end after he’d dropped off and looked well beaten leaves a question mark for me…
Time of the race also leaves me wondering…I’m no expert on race times, sectionals etc…but the 131 rated winner of the Feltham winning in a similar time leaves me wondering too…especially as he would have been well beaten but for fallers…
Would still wonder how his jumping would hold up if something could serve it up longer than SC could for today, especially at Cheltenham which will be a tougher test…
That said, he’s improving with every run…has won on different courses, different goings, no worries there…only problem is the two horses I think are capable of lowering his colours at Cheltenham are both currently on the sidelines and both probably a good bet not to get to the start of the GC which leaves him very much the one to beat now!
When you are looking to crown a hero a sense of balance is often an uneasy fit.
On bare form it would be very difficult to give Thistlecrack a high rating. It wouldn’t be a surprise if Cue Card has run a stone below his best. That sort of rating would fit in with the close proximity of the others. It could be that the winner didn’t have to run to much more than 165. Then you are left guessing as to how much was actually left in the tank. Who knows whether he could have picked up again and found another 5-10 lengths?
I was expecting Josses Hill to at least mix it up front but Jacob almost immediately waved a white flag. In terms of impact he may as well have not turned up but that said even he wasn’t beaten that far.
Surely the pressure on the front end and consequently the jumping test will be significantly greater in a Gold Cup?
Obviously, having already backed him I hope Thistlecrack does double up in March but I wouldn’t be counting any winnings just yet.
Just watched the finish of the race again. I had originally been of the opinion that the pack only closed him down because he was eased. Looking at it again Scudamore does ask the horse for several strides after the last and he isn’t going away. You do wonder what would have happened had the jock pushed him all the way to the line. As a horse who is so used to just quickening on the bridle perhaps he would have struggled to even extend the winning margin.
What a horse the winner is, and well done to Venture with the early 12-1 shout, what a call, and great show by Racing Orchid getting 50-1 for Silviniaco Conti.
Timeform class Thistlecrack’s performance as superior to Coneygree’s in the Gold Cup
https://www.timeform.com/horse-racing/result/kempton-park/2016-12-26/0315/27/5
I would say Timeform have just about got that right.
Wonderful animal and terrific turn of foot shown on Monday,but I am going to stick my neck out hugely here and say he can be beat in March.
These flashy sorts are great to watch but the gold cup is a unique test and you need a real grinder.Apart from still having a small worry about his jumping,I’m not convinced of how much he will find when push comes to shove up the hill.
The only horse I have ever seen win the GC on the bridle is the mighty Arkle,who was a complete freak of nature.If Thistlecrack can do the same then fair play to him,but if they can get him off the snaff then I sense he could be vulnerable.
If it somehow turns into a sprint though,it’s game over and goodnight!
It’s interesting how various ratings services differ, and I suspect they always have over the years. I respect that a number of people swear by Timeform but they have never been for me. In this instance they appear to have copped out in a flurry of plusses & question marks!
Horse…TFM….RP…..Me
Thi…..167+…178….176
CC……164?…166….169
SC……164?…166….168
TFT…..164?…165….168
JH……160….163….164I stick by my ratings. What is of more interest is what figure Thistlecrack could run to if pressed, say in the GC. Based on 178 for an easy World Hurdle win I think he could do 183 over Hurdles and a standard improvement from Hurdles to Chases is 10 so I would still predict 193. He still has to prove it and it is no small task, however, Monday removed a lot of the doubt. He deserves to be given the benefit of any remaining but if you think Monday was impressive imagine the reaction if this horse is, for once, ridden out and wins the GC by 10+ lengths!
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