Home › Forums › Big Races – Discussion › Thyestes 2015
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January 14, 2015 at 14:22 #27364
This has been the target for the much touted Djakadam for some time now, and he’ll make serious appeal to many. Especially as he could run off 10-9, should his stablemate, On His Own stand his ground. Mullins was quoted in The Racing Post as saying he asked Djakadam “a very unfair question” running him without a prep run before his flop in The Hennessy at Newbury. Only a few firms have the race priced up so far, with Djakadam not surprisingly heading the market, as low as 3’s with Paddy Power. He’s bound to be extremely popular, though even at that that price, he still clearly comes with a few risks. Yes, it was only his 4th chase, and he was coming off the back of a fall last time out, and tackling a large field for the first time……..but to me it was still a very disappointing run, and I’d still like to have seen him closer. There’s also the very real possibility that he’ll lump top weight, with On His Own, not a certain starter, and Foxrock due to take up his engagement on Sunday. Plenty of negatives then for a horse at 3’s at this stage. Very much in his favour though, is the race doesn’t look to have that much strength in depth, and should Foxrock, and On His Own, go elsewhere, then even off top weight, then should he even come close to justifying the hype, then he must go close. All the pre-race talk will surely be about him then, but there are some others lurking in there, for all Djakadam is my idea of the winner.
A lot will depend then on the decision surrounding On His Own. Mullins appeared to be very non committal to his participation, in his attempt to be the first ever horse to win it 3 times. He seems to be concerned at him having to lump 22lbs extra this time around, though he does acknowledge that he’s a Gold Cup horse, loves the track, and is built to do it. The temptation to go to The Hennessy on February 8th, must be very strong, certainly after his run in The Lexus, but I just have the feeling that he’ll head here. He’ll keep Djakadam on a lovely racing weight, and I think the temptation to make history as a 3 time winner of this might just sway them, and would also give him a longer break for The Gold Cup. Taking in this race last year didn’t do him any harm. Certainly doesn’t appeal around the 11-2 mark, with his participation in doubt, but I’d really fancy him for this should he turn up. I doubt I’d bet him at as short a price as that, at this stage, and as usual, I’ll no doubt try to find one at a bigger price, but should he head here, he’d leave so many out of the handicap, that the 11-2 would look very appealing.
Mullins has 2 others entered, in Dogora, and Abbey Lane. I think Dogora is a horse who doesn’t look that well treated, and a midfield finish in The Troytown, was followed by a crunching fall in The Paddy Power, and that’s enough to put me off. Abbey Lane makes some appeal though, certainly looking at his run in The Paddy Power. He’s a horse who continually comes up short around the 2 mile mark, where he’s done the majority of his racing, but upped to to 3 miles at Leapordstown he led the field a merry dance, and only weakened out of it in the closing stages. Like so many of them, it’s difficult to predict how the weights will look on the day, but 28’s about him looks very fair.
There were a few others who took in that Paddy Power Chase at Leapordstown, entered here, including Goonyella, The Job Is Right, My Murphy, and Groody Hill, who were all bang in contention approaching the home straight. I wouldn’t rule any of them out of this after their runs there, with not much more required, to again, go close here. Goonyella is a horse who I’ve kept on side a few times, but he is just getting slightly frustrating I suppose, though easy to forgive him his unseat at Aintree, and his return over hurdles at Punchestown was very encouraging. He just needs to find more at the business end, but I’ll be reluctantly leaving him alone for now. The novice, The Job Is Right, ran a great race that day, finishing 4th, and he was bang there all the way. He just lacked that final kick at the end, and even at this early stage of his career, he might need further. 16’s looks decent based on that last run, but I might just keep an eye on him this time, with the 4 miler at Cheltenham in mind for him. My main bet in this last year was Groody Hill, but off the back of a long lay off, he emptied very quickly heading for home, eventually pulling up. He’s returned a different horse this season though, finishing first past the post (later disqualified ) in a competitive handicap hurdle, before doing me proud, making the frame in The Troytown. Gave his all last time, and he looks, with his ability clearly retained, that he could go much better this year, and he’s on the shortlist. My Murphy, last seasons Irish National aside, always seems to give his all, and though he rarely wins, he’s never far away, and he’s difficult to write off. Like his run in The Paddy Power, he just faded near the end in The Troytown, but both those runs give plenty of encouragement for a test like this. He can’t be far off a much deserved win.
Vasco Du Mee, Rogue Angel, and Ipsos Du Berlais also took in The Paddy Power. Vasco Du Mee, and Rogue Angel both pulled up in that race, never getting dangerous, and both those runs would usually put me off them for this. Both horses however, showed a bit more spark at Punchestown on Sunday, making the frame over 3 miles behind Portait King. Admittedly, that race wasn’t the level of a Paddy Power, or a Thyestes, but it was something like a return to form for both of them. Vasco Du Mee looked to be going the right way over fences until The Paddy Power, and should he line up here, then I could see him surprising a few, without maybe actually landing it. Certainly difficult to write off one from the Elliot yard in a race like this, and he’s another I’ll keep an eye on. Rouge Angel was a horse I’ve backed a few times to lay in running, but he hasn’t looked the same horse this year, and even off the back of his run at Punchestown, I’ve still got those initial reservations about him. Ispsos Du Berlais, was a horse who I thought would turn out to be top class, but things haven’t went to plan for him. Extremely temperamental…..to say the least, he did at least show a lot more at Leapordstown, only fading coming out the back straight. He displayed much more enthusiasm that day, and I’ll not be writing him off as quickly this time. Part of me wants to take an each way chance at the 33’s, as he’s come nicely down the weights, and it’s just over a year since he finished 3rd in the 2013 Paddy Power. He’s risky……but tempting
Ipsos, and Rogue Angel, are 2 of the 4 Gigginstown entries, along with Make A Track, and Wounded Warrior. Wounded Warrior, although put in his place by Gilgamboa last time, went down narrowly to Don Poli at Cork in November, which reads well, before taking care of a decent field at Navan in December. This would be a big step up in trip over fences for him, but he did make the frame over this trip as a novice hurdler. He looks to have bags of potential, and just remains to be seen whether they throw him into a real slog like this, at his young age. I like the look of Make A Track for this as well. Showed in The Leapordstown Handicap last year, that a big field handicap wouldn’t phase him, and he’s continuing to slip down the weights. I still haven’t made my mind up whether just short of 3 miles is his ideal trip, and he does have a no show in The Irish National to his name, but he’s returned this season in decent form, including a win a low key hurdles race, and he’s certainly a danger. He ran respectably over 2 miles 3 over Christmas, and that should have him spot on for this.
Behind Make A Track that day was Toon River. He caught my eye last season with a win at Gowran Park, with Abbey Lane in second, and the very decent Operating a mile back in third. That would give him a chance here, but he’s not really went on since then, and on the whole I’d have to leave him, though that win at Gowran Park is hard to shake off.
French Import Sadler’safleure had a disappointing start for Jessica Harrington on his first run at Thurles, but he stepped up really well at Punchestown last month, only finding the very capable Grand Jesture too good, with a strong field, including Foxrock behind him. Not seen enough of him to take a definite stance, but that run last time was encouraging. Down the field that day at Punchestown was Oscars Business. He, on the face of it, off the back of that run, looks to have his work cut out here, but off only 3lbs higher, it doesn’t take too much imagination to see him repeat his excellent third in this last year. Might just be this has been the plan for him all along, and at 25’s something of a forgotten horse.
The winner of this in 2013, Jadanli, also holds an entry. Now a 13 year old, he’s not done that much since, but he was still in front when falling 3 out at Cork last week, and though not the hottest race, I got the impression he wasn’t finished with that day. A big ask for a veteran, but he’ll be off the mark he won off in this, and though he’ll maybe find a few youngsters with too much near the finish, he showed me enough last time to see him run a big race at 40’s.
The Tony Martin trained Gallant Oscar, third in the market at 6’s, looks impossible to ignore. Running very well over hurdles of late, and looks the type to land a big chase, especially off his current mark. The one drawback with him would be his jumping over the larger obstacles, but should he take his chance, I could see him pushing Djakadam as the favourite.
The JP McManus owned Like Your Style, showed a bit more last time in a veterans race at Limerick, with Jadanli behind him that day. That seemed to be the exception though, rather than the norm, and he’s a risky proposition with so many disappointing runs recently. His poor show in The Troytown would also put me off him, and though the ability is there, I’d be more interested in Sword Fish, who’s also owned by JP. Real possibility he’ll be well out the weights, but seems in good heart, winning last time, and only found the impressive Embracing Change too good for him at Fairyhouse in November, with many of these behind him that day. Maybe stretching it to see him land this, but I’ve seen worse 25-1 shots, and would at least expect a run for my money. He had Thelobstercatcher in second when he last time, who’s showed some ability in the past, and as he comes down the weights looks nailed on to land a decent staying chase before the seasons out. He’s another a way down the bottom of the weights, along with Sword Fish, and I don’t think he’ll disgrace himself at all, but probably not the same kind of appeal as the JP horse. One for later in the season I think.
Djakadam or On His Own are my idea of the winner, but prices will probably stop me betting them.
Of those at a price, on another day, I might have already taken a chance on Groody Hill, Ipsos Du Berlais, and especially Abbey Lane.
GL
January 14, 2015 at 17:26 #501503My first thought when checking the market for this was that Djakadam was too short compared to On His Own.
I said at the time that I felt The Hennessey was the wrong race for Djakadam, particularly on his seasonal debut. I think he has enough to prove to make 3/1 a poor value bet for now.
On His Own ran a much improved race behind Road To Riches in The Lexus, after finishing in a different postcode area behind the same horse in the J N Wines.
On the face of it, that seems a whole lot better than Djakadam in the Hennessey but like so many of these ante-post races with multiple entries and numerous alternatives for a stable, you need to be privy to inside information to make sure you are investing wisely.
I’ll pass on this one for now.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
January 14, 2015 at 19:30 #501507Vasco Du Mee a very interesting contender if he runs, thought he looked the value at 25/1 on first glance.
January 19, 2015 at 17:01 #502140Gave this a more in depth look today and have went for The Job Is Right. You need a strong stayer for the Thyestes and while I think Djakadam is probably well handicapped, he might not be at his best in this sort of slog. The Job Is Right showed he stays a testing three miles when fourth in the Paddy Power, a huge run for a novice having just his fourth start over fences. Foxrock boosted the form yesterday and The Job Is Right is only rated three pounds higher here, having won at Punchestown on New Year’s Eve. 16/1 will do nicely.
January 19, 2015 at 23:35 #502203Got to agree with THM on this one – The Jobster looks like he’s down to run a big race, and decent novices can and do win this one. Got 16s
Another one I’m looking at is Vasco Du Mee – if we use trends as a guide he matches pretty much every damn one. Got 25s.
Fingers crossed!
Twitter=@PGHenn
So don't run, just like the others always do
January 21, 2015 at 14:55 #502357Must be some sort of vibe going here because
The Job Is Right
is my selection for this as well.
One of the few distance winners in the field he comes here in form and looks very solid each-way.
Djakadam didn’t seem suited by the test The Hennessey offered and at the odds I can’t have him for this, although I’ll be disappointed because he’s in my Ten To Follow.
I was looking to another distance winner in
Sword Fish
as a dark horse but really was looking for 25/1 as an each way shout, rather than the actual 16/1 available.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
January 21, 2015 at 17:05 #502363Decent turnout for the Galmoy elsewhere on the card. I thought Briar Hill ran a good race on his comeback given the terrible vibes about him. He travelled well to the second last, hit that and then looked like he blew up. As such I thought I might get a bit of value about him the next day.
However he’s shorter than I expected at 9/4 (I had him as a 3/1 shot) and I’m readily looking past him. He has been pretty weak on Betfair for the World Hurdle and all does not seem well with the horse. He was an excellent novice last season and I’d be happy to be wrong but I wouldn’t be taking a short price about him tomorrow.
The one that is value is
Monksland
at 13/8, who I had priced at 5/4. He blew up at Leopardstown around the second last but having got his second wind he stayed on well for third after the final flight. That was his first run for two years and improvement can be expected.
Briar Hill has a 23 length gap to make up on Meade’s horse and is seven pounds worse off at the weights. Zaidpour and Dedigout are both hit and miss while Cause Of Causes looks up against it.
January 22, 2015 at 10:16 #502411Gave this a more in depth look today and have went for The Job Is Right. You need a strong stayer for the Thyestes and while I think Djakadam is probably well handicapped, he might not be at his best in this sort of slog. The Job Is Right showed he stays a testing three miles when fourth in the Paddy Power, a huge run for a novice having just his fourth start over fences. Foxrock boosted the form yesterday and The Job Is Right is only rated three pounds higher here, having won at Punchestown on New Year’s Eve. 16/1 will do nicely.
Cant argue too much against Djakadam but these Irish handicaps are always tough to win off top weight. There is usually something set aside further down the handicap. You can get 48 on betfair for vasco du mee which i also think is good value. I also like My Murphy and lasat years third (Oscar Business?)
SHL
January 22, 2015 at 10:22 #502412Decent turnout for the Galmoy elsewhere on the card. I thought Briar Hill ran a good race on his comeback given the terrible vibes about him. He travelled well to the second last, hit that and then looked like he blew up. As such I thought I might get a bit of value about him the next day.
However he’s shorter than I expected at 9/4 (I had him as a 3/1 shot) and I’m readily looking past him. He has been pretty weak on Betfair for the World Hurdle and all does not seem well with the horse. He was an excellent novice last season and I’d be happy to be wrong but I wouldn’t be taking a short price about him tomorrow.
The one that is value is
Monksland
at 13/8, who I had priced at 5/4. He blew up at Leopardstown around the second last but having got his second wind he stayed on well for third after the final flight. That was his first run for two years and improvement can be expected.
Briar Hill has a 23 length gap to make up on Meade’s horse and is seven pounds worse off at the weights. Zaidpour and Dedigout are both hit and miss while Cause Of Causes looks up against it.
Monksland is ok but i would worry about the bounce and i wouldnt rush to back him at the price. Its fair to say that last days race didnt contain a performance of the type that would be delivered by a Solwhit or even a Bog Warrior on form. I think it was ordinary enough so if either Briar Hill or Zaidpour spring back to form, i think they could win. The latter might be value.
SHL
January 22, 2015 at 10:54 #502415Not having a bet. To many improbables and tbh I dont know a huge amount about the runners apart from those at the top. I had a look to see what the consensus of opinion was and VtC had it right in his opening thread especially in his first paragraph because its how it has panned out totally.
Good Luck if your’e having a bet. It’s a fascinating race and one that stops a county which I find engaging.
January 22, 2015 at 12:07 #502421I notice Gallant Oscar and Djakadam are the same odds with some firms this morning.
I am not sure quite why but Gallant Oscar doesn’t really appeal to me at his price. A quick glance at his form with 1s and 2s filling it up makes him stand out a bit against the rest of the field but he’s been kept to hurdles of late, has had a couple of mishaps over jumps and I’m not really feeling the vibe that he should be a joint fav here.
Djakadam should be the proverbial Matt Chapman "different gravy" but the going is heavy and that could make the gravy a bit lumpy. Had the ground been better I might have lumped on Djakadam but even so I find 5/1 on Betfair a little tempting in one of those races where you might end up shaking your head and thinking "well that was obvious"
I’d probably lay Gallant Oscar at 4/1 for this.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
January 22, 2015 at 15:32 #502447Unlucky Job Is Right there, I think he’d have kept second.
It was pretty hard to tell what was going on for most of the race but it seemed like a good performance from Djakadam there and he’ll no doubt go up in the weights for that.
I thought 5/1 was a big price for him today and was scratching my head looking at my lay Gallant Oscar at 3/1 in the betting at one stage. Rank value at that I thought.
Interesting where Djakadam goes next. He was touted as a Gold Cup outsider at one stage and clearly has a touch of class but how much is the question. Nice performance today though, and some much needed Ten To Follow points for me.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
January 22, 2015 at 15:35 #502448Impressive from Djakadam, just hope TJIR is ok after that fall.
Can’t say I envied the commentator!
Twitter=@PGHenn
So don't run, just like the others always do
January 22, 2015 at 15:38 #502450Wow, way to prove me wrong Djakadam. I slated him, thought he was a very poor price and just couldn’t see him staying on previous form or pedigree.
Well done to everyone who took the ante-post prices for the Ryanair or maybe even the Gold Cup. I know I didn’t!
January 22, 2015 at 15:39 #502451Agree with that TYF, I’d make Djakadam a lively outsider for The Gold Cup after that, much more like it.
I hope TJIR is ok as well, quite a heavy looking one.
January 22, 2015 at 15:44 #502454Wow, way to prove me wrong Djakadam. I slated him, thought he was a very poor price and just couldn’t see him staying on previous form or pedigree.
Well done to everyone who took the ante-post prices for the Ryanair or maybe even the Gold Cup. I know I didn’t!
Hardly likely to be going Ryanair is he?
January 22, 2015 at 16:35 #502464Nah, seems doubtful now Stilvi. Practically confirmed for the Gold Cup already.
I wonder if this has any implications for Boston Bob at all, or if his plans are completely unaffected by what the Ricci horses do.
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