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Zarkava, New Approach won the Derby and the Irish and English champion stakes.Was beaten a short head in the English Guineas. Beat Twice Over by six lengths in the Champion Stakes.So he won three Group One races in his three year old season.And was second in two classics.Is that not delivering on his promise? If I was his owner I would think the exact opposite to you.
Excuse my ignorance but what is this 15.5 you speak of two posts ago?
Actually I should’ve mentioned another stat, simply forgot since I hadn’t written it down. The stamina indexes for the sire and damsire when added together have been 16.2+ for 15 of the past 16 winners. 2000 Guineas winners are essentially 10 furlong horses that have the pace for a mile, so they require an essential blend of speed and stamina.
Thanks, i was obviously too busy digesting the first post to read the second!
Interesting. Who was the exception to this rule?
Zarkava, New Approach won the Derby and the Irish and English champion stakes.Was beaten a short head in the English Guineas. Beat Twice Over by six lengths in the Champion Stakes.So he won three Group One races in his three year old season.And was second in two classics.Is that not delivering on his promise? If I was his owner I would think the exact opposite to you.
Bar Twice Over, who, let’s be honest, has been picking up easy Group 1s against inferior opposition, what did he ever beat? Traffic Guard by 1/2L?
Thanks, i was obviously too busy digesting the first post to read the second!
Interesting. Who was the exception to this rule?
Lol, granted there’s a lot of heavy dense info in there!
Island Sands the exception, 15.4 going off memory. Next highest Sea the Stars + Makfi 16.9. I made my cut-off point half-way between the 2 to allow for leeway. Worth reading the post (previous page) because you need to be careful of new sites a la HRE + Iffraaj.
Dear Zarkava how can you deliver if there is no opposition in your age group? Can it be that there were no group horses in the 3yo range during his year?The two Champion Stakes races were open to all ages,right? I must agree that the opposition was weak even in the Derby.Tartan Bearer was the best of the rest I suppose. However I agree that Twice Over is not all the racing press say he is (in deference to his trainer).But as I said if you are an owner you tend to be glad that there is no horse as good as yours in the age group.I just think you too easily dismissed him. J.Bolger did not exactly cover himself with glory in his campaign with this horse either if you recall.
Of course the horse will always be criticised for what Bolder did. Suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree. He did a fair bit, but getting comfortably beaten by Duke of Marmalade + not running in the Arc did his rep no good.
On the 1000 Guineas front, Zoowraa is 70s on the machine having been 55s 2 days ago. Non-runner.
to beat them were all bred with far more speed in mind.
The next stat is again a bit of an avalanche and really is without exception.
Barring Aidan O’Brien runners, all horses to have run over 5 or 6f at Group level as a 2-year-old have been beaten.
Middle Park runners are 0-1-15 with the placed run coming from Dutch Art.
Mujahid, Redback* (thanks, Peruvian for the correction), Zafeen, the aforementioned Dutch Art, Dick Turpin & Canford Cliffs have been the only placed horses after having run over 6 furlongs in a 2yo Group race. 6 from 48. And really you can’t make a case against them, as not one came close to winning.
Canford Cliffs may not have come close to winning (thanks largely to a **** ride) but he ended up being the best horse in the race. Barring the AOB runners makes this a totally meaningless stat because there has to be a reason for the stat in the first place – that maybe running in those races as 2yo meant that Guineas contenders were too speed orientated. Trends are useless unless there appears a concrete reason for them. Like I know someone who couldn’t have Long Run for the Gold Cup simply based on his age. Redonkulous.
That animals who run over 6f in Group contests are too speedy? Like Rodrigo de Triano or Generous?
With respect Zarkaza and as diligent and thorough as these stats are, surely you are o verlookinga glaring one in nominating Dubai Prince? Godolphins early season form over a number of years. If one were to be really unkind one could couple that with the fact that many horses that transfer to the boys in blue do not improve.
Long Run’s recent win does indeed prove that trands/stats are there to be broken. In fact we could probably massage any number of them to make a case for any number of the leading contenders.
I try to keep things a bit more simple. Frankel is the best horse – Frankel will win.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I try to keep things a bit more simple. Frankel is the best horse – Frankel will win.
But will he be the best horse on the day over a mile on fast ground? The defeats of New Approach, Dubawi and Celtic Swing in their years suggests he is worth opposing at his very cramped odds. All three of those animals shared traits with Frankel, be it ground concerns or the possibility they would be better over further. Frankel’s sire and his soft ground form make him worth taking on.
I try to keep things a bit more simple. Frankel is the best horse – Frankel will win.
But will he be the best horse on the day over a mile on fast ground? The defeats of New Approach, Dubawi and Celtic Swing in their years suggests he is worth opposing at his very cramped odds. All three of those animals shared traits with Frankel, be it ground concerns or the possibility they would be better over further. Frankel’s sire and his soft ground form make him worth taking on.
It depends when you backed him.
Ignore the odds and he is still by far the most likely winner."this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
With respect Zarkaza and as diligent and thorough as these stats are, surely you are o verlookinga glaring one in nominating Dubai Prince? Godolphins early season form over a number of years. If one were to be really unkind one could couple that with the fact that many horses that transfer to the boys in blue do not improve.
Long Run’s recent win does indeed prove that trands/stats are there to be broken. In fact we could probably massage any number of them to make a case for any number of the leading contenders.
I try to keep things a bit more simple. Frankel is the best horse – Frankel will win.
If he were with Bin Suroor, I’d be inclined to agree, but Al Zarooni looks different gravy + a far better trainer. His record with Rewilding speaks volumes IMO.
With respect Zarkaza and as diligent and thorough as these stats are, surely you are o verlookinga glaring one in nominating Dubai Prince? Godolphins early season form over a number of years. If one were to be really unkind one could couple that with the fact that many horses that transfer to the boys in blue do not improve.
Long Run’s recent win does indeed prove that trands/stats are there to be broken. In fact we could probably massage any number of them to make a case for any number of the leading contenders.
I try to keep things a bit more simple. Frankel is the best horse – Frankel will win.
If he were with Bin Suroor, I’d be inclined to agree, but Al Zarooni looks different gravy + a far better trainer. His record with Rewilding speaks volumes IMO.
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