- This topic has 29 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 8 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
"3. Fitzgerald. Do like to hear the Irish voices when the racing is coming from Leopardstown etc, but …."
Anti Irishness and homophobia in one thread. I could never have envisaged it.
SHL
your culture
I didn’t realise I had a culture.
Enlighten me.
Please.
I think you know exactly what I mean BH, but if you wish.
Describing yourself on your own thread as:
"Formerly on the libertarian socialist side of the spectrum but after realising that most people are incapable of looking after themselves and that many lefties are amongst the most unpleasant people one is likely to meet, I’m now an apathetic cynic… with a hint of Titoism".
An Eastern European/possibly Bosnian(?) "culture", with formerly Yugoslavian Partisan Libertarian Socialist leanings and "Titoism".
I do not know if you yourself came from Yugoslavia or your ancestors did. Does not matter, it is an Eastern European/Yugoslavian Partisan "culture". (There may be a slight possibility of you just having a love of everything Yugoslavian, including drink
with no ancestors). Anyway…Although I have a much greater respect for Tito/Yugoslavian Socialism than the Soviet version, Yugoslavian Partisans carried out death sentences on homosexuals in World War Two, even on Partisan homosexuals. Nowadays there is a more anti-gay culture in most Eastern European countries than Western European. Gays in the former Yugoslavia often finding themselves ostricised. Obviously this "culture" will take time to change.
Of course just because someone comes from a certain "Culture"/community does not mean they have those values. All I was saying is it MAY have rubbed off a LITTLE – SUBCONCIOUSLY…
But I’ll now put your exaggerated opinion down to too much Rakija again BH.
May be I should not allow myself to look at this type of anti-thread. TRFers don’t seem to like it when their own thorough dislike of Racing personalities is itself disliked. Some criticism is fine, but seems to me a few take it too far and (as the person taking the flack is not a TRFer) expect no come backs. I’ll be meeting some of those racing personalities on Tuesday and don’t see them as faceless non-people.
Value Is EverythingSo because of my possible South Slavic heritage, my views and opinions are liable to be influenced by latent homophobia and alcoholism?
You’re denigrating the morality of an entire region and those whose roots lie in that region when the morality of your home country is nothing to be proud of. Indeed, we’re still within a couple of generations of the truly abhorrent manner in which your country treated Alan Turing. It was only in 2006 that the first prosecution for homophobic murder occurred. Let’s not ignore the tragedy of Justin Fashanu or the casual homophobia that is still a commonplace in football stadiums around the country. And what of the support received by those bible thumping homophobic B&B owners a couple of years ago? This wasn’t support from a peripheral fringe. It was support that went all the way up to the houses of parliament. I’ll not get started on how immigrants (prospective or otherwise) are still routinely bashed for the sake of political capital.
I’m not defending anybody from Ex-Jugo but I’m certainly not going to judge or predetermine actions or motives. With the exception of sporadic political bombing, the United Kingdom has not seen war for almost seventy years. Jugoslavija was embroilled in a purely hellish conflict which is still pervasively fresh in the mindset. Politically speaking, the fractured remnants of Jugoslavija are still beyond a shambles. Now the slow shifting perception of homosexuality in the UK was not an organic one. Brits are not universally or naturally empathetic or righteous. No group of peoples on the planet are. But the citizens of the UK have had a relatively stable seventy years wherein the cultural paradigm (supported by legislature and the luxury of a more hedonistic lifestyle) has been able to move achingly slowly towards a more comfortable existence for the LGBT community.
Anyhow, when I went on my "tirade" (which was posted at 13.10 – which would be really impressive if I was hammered on rakija at the time), I made no mention of her sexuality whatsoever. You did. So are you saying that LGBT are immune from being found tedious? That their immediate recourse to criticism is to play the homophobe card? Or could it be that you’re just downright comfortable with using another person’s sexuality to attack somebody on the internet?
I’m glad you don’t see Miss B as a faceless non-person. You are such an awesome and enlightened worldly man of the world. And brave and proud too. Next time you see the faceful and personly Miss B, you should tell her about that time you heroically defended her honour against an anonymous, drunk and possibly East European keyboard jockey. Hopefully, she won’t, like I, see right through your self-satisfied, sanctimonious smuggery.
So because of my possible South Slavic heritage, my views and opinions are liable to be influenced by latent homophobia and
alcoholism
?
You’re denigrating the morality of an entire region and those whose roots lie in that region when the morality of your home country is nothing to be proud of.
Anyhow, when I went on my "tirade" (which was posted at 13.10 – which would be really impressive if I was hammered on rakija at the time)
Yet more exaggeration BH.
Again, I am sure you know what my rakija private joke was reffering to.
But I’ll now put your exaggerated opinion down to too much Rakija again BH.
Don’t like reffering to them but:
After previously finding fault with something I said, you sent me a pm and didn’t exactly hold back. When I took exception to the wording you then sent another with a partial apology. Explaining that you were drunk on Rakija at time of writing that first pm.So am not accusing you or any South Slavic of being an alcoholic. Just questioned (in a private joke) whether your Clare Balding post may also be excused by the same Bosnian drink.
Value Is EverythingSo because of my possible South Slavic heritage, my views and opinions are liable to be influenced by latent homophobia and
alcoholism
?
You’re denigrating the morality of an entire region and those whose roots lie in that region when the morality of your home country is nothing to be proud of.
Anyhow, when I went on my "tirade" (which was posted at 13.10 – which would be really impressive if I was hammered on rakija at the time)
Yet more exaggeration BH.
Again, I am sure you know what my rakija private joke was reffering to.
But I’ll now put your exaggerated opinion down to too much Rakija again BH.
Don’t like reffering to them but:
After previously finding fault with something I said, you sent me a pm and didn’t exactly hold back. When I took exception to the wording you then sent another with a partial apology. Explaining that you were drunk on Rakija at time of writing that first pm.So am not accusing you or any South Slavic of being an alcoholic. Just questioned (in a private joke) whether your Clare Balding post may also be excused by the same Bosnian drink.
I very vaguely remember that conversation which was close to a year ago. I do remember being grief stricken at the time hence my use of Rakija. I remember giving you a full rather than partial apology following which I elaborated on my original private message. I received no response, rather a petty public airing of dirty laundry. With this in mind, I can assure you that we are not on a "private joke" basis.
I will remind you that your initial response to my Clare Balding was an accusation of homophobia due to cultural differences.
In my latest post, the only exaggeration occurs in the blatant sarcasm. I’m not even remotely exaggerating when I’m attacking your comments alluding to sexuality or race. Issues that you and you alone brought into the fray.
So because of my possible South Slavic heritage, my views and opinions are liable to be influenced by latent homophobia and alcoholism?
You’re denigrating the morality of an entire region and those whose roots lie in that region when the morality of your home country is nothing to be proud of. Indeed, we’re still within a couple of generations of the truly abhorrent manner in which your country treated Alan Turing. It was only in 2006 that the first prosecution for homophobic murder occurred. Let’s not ignore the tragedy of Justin Fashanu or the casual homophobia that is still a commonplace in football stadiums around the country. And what of the support received by those bible thumping homophobic B&B owners a couple of years ago? This wasn’t support from a peripheral fringe. It was support that went all the way up to the houses of parliament. I’ll not get started on how immigrants (prospective or otherwise) are still routinely bashed for the sake of political capital.
I’m not defending anybody from Ex-Jugo but I’m certainly not going to judge or predetermine actions or motives. With the exception of sporadic political bombing, the United Kingdom has not seen war for almost seventy years. Jugoslavija was embroilled in a purely hellish conflict which is still pervasively fresh in the mindset. Politically speaking, the fractured remnants of Jugoslavija are still beyond a shambles. Now the slow shifting perception of homosexuality in the UK was not an organic one. Brits are not universally or naturally empathetic or righteous. No group of peoples on the planet are. But the citizens of the UK have had a relatively stable seventy years wherein the cultural paradigm (supported by legislature and the luxury of a more hedonistic lifestyle) has been able to move achingly slowly towards a more comfortable existence for the LGBT community.
Anyhow, when I went on my "tirade" (which was posted at 13.10 – which would be really impressive if I was hammered on rakija at the time), I made no mention of her sexuality whatsoever. You did. So are you saying that LGBT are immune from being found tedious? That their immediate recourse to criticism is to play the homophobe card? Or could it be that you’re just downright comfortable with using another person’s sexuality to attack somebody on the internet?
I’m glad you don’t see Miss B as a faceless non-person. You are such an awesome and enlightened worldly man of the world. And brave and proud too. Next time you see the faceful and personly Miss B, you should tell her about that time you heroically defended her honour against an anonymous, drunk and possibly East European keyboard jockey. Hopefully, she won’t, like I, see right through your self-satisfied, sanctimonious smuggery.
Whether you or I like it or not BH (and I don’t like some of mine) we all inherit influences from our ancestors. Some of which we have no idea about (because it is in our subconsciousness) until someone might draw our attention to it.
And I think anyone would agree, despite your well made arguements as to the poor history of British homophobia, the current amount of homophobia in Eastern European Culture (in particular in this case ex-Yugoslavian countries) is far more prevelent. That is not to say everyone from those countries should be judged as "homophobic".
And of course no homophobic mentions a LGBT’s "sexuality" when criticising.
Otherwise they’d immediately be seen as "homophobic", so concentrating on exaggerating non-sexual criticism. As said, anyone can like or dislike anyone, Clare is/should not be immune from criticism, nor would she want to be. But when someone does not even know the person yet seems to have such a thorough disliking – it makes me wonder (only human nature) if there is some other underlieing reason. Hence why I asked whether there might be a possibility of homophobia in your subconsciousness brought about by an Eastern European Culture. Please re-read the first post BH, NOT an "accusation", just a question.
If you have now examined your beliefs, feelings and subconsciousness and come to the conclusion there is no homophobia there BH – then I am of course perfectly willing to accept that.
I’ve now put your post down to a wish to exaggerate your dislike for anyone. Balding, Dettori, who’s next?
Value Is EverythingIn my initial response to you in this thread was included my statement that "I agree that prejudices prevail in pretty much every society on the planet."
What I found uncomfortable and what I take issue with was the fact that your very first port of call was Clare Balding’s sexuality followed immediately by my possible cultural background.
If I recall correctly, I’ve made my first reference to my own sexuality in this thread. Not because I’m ashamed of what I get up to, but because my bearing has absolutely no bearing on who I am as an individual nor does it affect my actions. By the same token, I wouldn’t want it to be part of any reason one might find me annoying.
I think it’s unfair of you to raise the issue of her sexuality when the only other shred of "evidence" is down to my penchant to occasionally enjoy a certain regional brew and a hint of admiration for a deceased political figure. If there was a pattern of my disliking people with a certain sexual taste then you may be right to raise it. Otherwise, all you’ve done is unfairly attribute a general behaviour to a group of people with a radically different (and incomprehensibly more difficult) history to that of your own.
I will openly admit that due to my background, I
can
initially be a bit classist when encountering a person of a "higher standing" before having to correct myself. Thankfully, the correction typically occurs before I’ve assessed the person and taken into account broader elements of that person’s attributes and philosophy. It’s one of my plentiful flaws but I’m aware of it enough that I’ve never asked another person "Do you hold that view because you’re middle class?" Indeed, I would probably have much fewer friends had I done so.
On the other hand, you appear to have missed this step altogether which, if I were interested, would lead me to speculate on the prejudices you carry.
To re-iterate. I don’t dislike Clare Balding at all. I’m not keen on her presenting style and feel she’s vastly overrated as a presenter but there is no dislike to exaggerate. As for Dettori (and Curley – you missed out Curley), the contempt I hold those two in is reflected in my comments in measure equal. I’ve no doubt that you will learn of other characters I dislike in due course. In the interests of fairness though, shouldn’t you go through all the nominations in the annual "Villain of the year" threads and comment on whether the disdain held for the candidates is either exaggerated, tepid or adequate? This is a forum for airing peoples’ opinions after all.
Since this conversation has little to do with TV presenters and nothing to do with horse racing, you can have your last word here or continue it in private.
Gingertipster once again being the inane, self professing know it all irrate plonker that he is.
I dislike watching Balding too. Based both on rational and irrational reasons. Her paddock party fun is both tiresome, difficult to watch and filled with obsolete and pointless questions to connections that patently have nothing of real interest to say. Her analysis nothing remarkable. Indulges in hyperbole too. All that is left is that supposed professionalism ; this go getter. Well, it doesn’t really translate into any meaningful or interesting processed thoughts, alas.
Mick Fitz looks like a boy seeing boobs for the first time. Excitement abound, wrapped up in useless and illogical cliches. Little ability to form cognitive, coherent analysis, rather racing F1 cars in his own little head. He’s having a whale of a time he is on that hass! Mr Illogical they say.
Nick Luck has the head of toilet basin. Big, brash and unappealing to view. It’s not that he isn’t knowledge or lacks the ability to put forth his view ; he patently can and does. It’s the seemingly endless desire to engage in hyperbole, stories of emotion and illogical rhetoric (surely Mick and him aren’t rubbing off on each other!). He’s grown on me a little, but he’s certainly not a great lead man.
But, but, but Balding and Luck have gravitas! If i ever have to hear that word again …
Pishad isn’t a natural racing broadcaster, but he’s likable. He’s not the fun loving character Thommo is, but like the mad man, i can’t possibly dislike him.
Cunningham/Mcgrath are actually quite good together IMO.
Stevenson should be collecting from the job center. Awful presenter. Spencer does what she does, but you feel has little insightful anaylsis to really offer.
Plunket, oh Alice, for godsake, find a new hat outlet.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.