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Being Irish I’d assume the Magnier operation deals in euros and not sterling.
Does anyone know – do Coolmore have any interest/share in Forestry?
I don’t know about any shares or interest, but Magnier had a 3yo called Doneraile Court who was beaten by Forestry 2 1/2 lengths in the Group 2 Dwyer Stakes. Doneraile Court was also getting 3lb.
Doneraile Court went on to get beaten by further by Forestry in the Group 1 King’s Bishop Stakes by 5 1/2 lengths, once again getting 3lb.
Doneraile is by Seattle Slew – American Triple Crown winner – and out of Sophisticated Girl, winner of 2 out of 2 as a 2yo totalling $122,000+.
(Edited by jackane24 at 1:55 pm on Mar. 2, 2006)
Peng – I’ve had a look at the Fasig website but can’t find any workouts. Do you have a link you could post?
The main link would be that Forestry is a son of Storm Cat, who Coolmore have an interest in (both himself and his other stallion sons).  Storm Cat’s reputation being boosted as a sire of sires would obviously be a plus, as they have Giant’s Causeway, Hennessy, Hold That Tiger, Black Minnaloushe, Tale of the Cat and Van Nistelrooy all standing in the States.
However the big price was probably more because Coolmore don’t have an actual direct link to Forestry – as a ‘neutral’ stallion the Maktoums were much more likely to bid for him.  The cold-shouldering of Coolmore stallions has reduced Maktoum options, and Forestry was highlighted last year as one of the up-and-coming top sires to benefit.  His fee went up to $100,000 for this season.
http://fasigtipton.sitespace.com/
I believe this is where the workouts can be found.
(Edited by pengamon at 2:13 pm on Mar. 2, 2006)
That site is brilliant!! I just checked it – you can even see the videos.
The $16 million Forestry colt is on page 4. Just watched the clip – stunning, beautiful horse.
(Edited by jackane24 at 2:17 pm on Mar. 2, 2006)
I’ve just had a quick look through some of the other workouts and was actually far more impressed by the performances of lots 194 and 198 – a Mr Greeley colt, out of Peaks Mill and a Johannesbourg filly, out of Piedras Negras.
But it would seem Coolmore also purchased them for a mere $2m and $1.1m respectively.
(Edited by LetsGetRacing at 2:31 pm on Mar. 2, 2006)
<br>I must be missing something, but $16M for a dirt bred horse that has shown he can run fast on that surface and they are sending him to Biancone.
Doesn’t he train in California and aren’t they replacing their dirt tracks with Polytrack?
And with the same thing happening in Kentucky, are sires with a dirt track background going to command big fees in the years ahead?
AP<br>
Quote: from apracing on 3:17 pm on Mar. 2, 2006[br]<br>I must be missing something, but $16M for a dirt bred horse that has shown he can run fast on that surface and they are sending him to Biancone.
<br>Biancone is based in Saratoga for the Spring, Summer and a large part of the Autumn.
He used to winter in California but this winter he definitely has horses-and may be completely based- at Turfway Park in Kentucky-which is the 1st track to use polytrack as a racing surface.
Biancone’s in the equaton-but I’d fancy that Pletcher might get the colt instead of Biancone and he’s based in Florida in the winters.
Doesn’t he train in California and aren’t they replacing their dirt tracks with Polytrack?
And with the same thing happening in Kentucky, are sires with a dirt track background going to command big fees in the years ahead?
AP<br>
(Edited by pengamon at 3:41 pm on Mar. 2, 2006)
Thanks for the link Pengamon. The horse looks good but, hey, so do most of them!
I think some of what Sal is saying re- Forestry and the Maktoums makes sense and that might be more to do with the price than their feelings about how good the horse may be..
There is no chance of this horse staying the Kentucky Derby distance. <br>The last time Coolmore lost the run of themselves they were almost ruined. Certainly Robert Sangster never recovered. They then went to the public via Classic Thoroughbreds to raise money to keep playing. The capital raised (including their own stakes in it) lasted no time. <br>Sadlers Wells came good as a sire just in time to save the whole show. Like JP McManus, Magnier has used the glamour of horses and gambling to develop business relationships with very wealthy and capable people. He himself is very capable. However to believe that the $16 million is small change to them is totally wrong. This was a rush of blood to the head and they will regret it. Anyone who has ever bought young horses at the sales will recognise the symptoms.
Letsgetracing,<br>Certainly the desire to outbid Sheikh Mohammad was a factor. However the idea that their own opinion of the colt would be bolstered by the fact that SM showed an interest would be far off the mark. SM’s record of buying unproven young horses is so bad as too almost defy belief.
I haven’t said, or even hinted, that Coolmore’s view of the colt was based solely on the opinion of Sheikh Mohammed, and that the only reason they went to such lengths to acquire him was to get one over on the man who is boycotting their stallions.
I was merely making a statement with regard to the competitive nature of both outfits, and the effect recent events would have had in magnifying that.
You have said that it would be folly to believe that $16m is, relatively speaking, nothing to the likes of Magnier. Yet, if you take a look at Britain’s Rich List from 2005 (as published in the Sunday Times), it lists the former Manchester United shareholder as being worth £520m.
It’s true to say that he hasn’t necessarily got half a billion sitting in his bank account, but I’m sure he’s not short of a few quid and shelling out £9m with a view to returning ten times that in the coming years probably isn’t all that big a deal.
I’m inclined to side with the likes of Bellewstown on this one.
Obviously there is the proven fact that this horse has an engine under the saddle but as already said here, asking a two year old to do that kind of work this young will no doubt leave a mark.
There was the whole discussion about changing the distances of classic races not long ago because so many horses were bred to be faster but the fact that Coolmore’s own top stallions now are Sadler’s Wells, Montjeu and Giant’s Causeway – ie sires capable of throwing horses who can properly stay classic distances – speaks volumes.
If the horse is truly that fast then there is no chance of it staying classic distances and little chance of it siring classic horses – provided it becomes worthy of standing at stud to a decent book anyway. Add to that the fact that Forestry, whilst obviously a good young sire, is hardly one of the top sires in the world…the horse would have a lot to prove.
I personally think it’s crazy to pay so much for a horse who would have such a limited appeal on breeding, and even then that’s reliant on him living up to now massive expectations. <br>
The dam won a maiden from 11 starts. This horse is the second produce, the previous foal a colt and unraced as yet. Total waste of money.
Surely the whole "rush of blood to the head" is a bit too easy and simplistic and indeed greatly underestimates the Coolmore operation. Time and time again last year we saw them withdraw from battles with Godolphin for horses with much more seemingly going for them. Horses by the likes of Kingmambo and Storm Cat etc.
So while we all guess (and thats all it is) the reasons behind the purchase and label it a total waste of money is it not at all impossible that some of the shrewdest men in the business saw something in this colt that they could not bare to let slip? Like I said already Coolmore have on numerous occasions pulled out of such battles so simply putting it all down to ego doesn’t wash.
Robert Sangster is reported to have said ‘this is getting a bit silly’ as the bidding escalated for the horse that would turn out to be Seattle Dancer. How right he was, it ultimately cost him his share in Coolmore. <br>The lure of buying the top lot and making the headlines is very strong, even (or perhaps especially) for these people.<br>Anyone who has ever bought horses at a ‘buzzing’ sale will tell you how easy it is to lose the run of yourself. The Coolmore boys love the drama as much as anyone. <br>Talking of sale toppers here is an interesting and true story. A good few years ago when Vincent O Brien was coming to the end of his training days (there were only a few horses left in the yard, Classic thoroughbreds had collapsed, Vincent was already old) a colt was consigned to Goffs by Pat O’ Kelly. It was out of that famous mare Flame of Tara whose early foals included Salsibal and Marju. The horse was a well made good sized, correct type and widely tipped to top the sale.<br>Lots of people couldn’t warm to him however, he had no great use of himself while walking and he wasn’t the raciest most athletic type. To look at him standing however he couldn’t be faulted on conformation.<br>Rumour had it that Vincent was going to buy him and that Pat O Kelly would retain a share (opinion was divided on whether Coolmore already owned half of him through a foal share arrangement, he was by Sadlers Wells).<br>Billy McDonald had been found somewhere and was brought up to do the bidding for luck and old times sake.<br>Anyway the horse was knocked down to Billy at 1.4 million pounds after a typically dramatic piece of bidding theatre.<br>The horse was brought to the lunging ring to be wind tested and Vincent went down to have a look. After two circuits of the ring Vincent stormed off the viewing stairs with a face like thunder. He knew he had trained his last decent horse. The colt lunged (as he subsequently ran) with an exaggerated scratchy action and no noticable shoulder action. The writing was on the wall ten minutes after the hammer fell.
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