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Quote: from empty wallet on 9:44 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]That wasn’t to you , it was to TMM, and if you give me the feckin time i will answer, but seeing your being uppity, i’ll decline and keep what i think to myself<br>
I see …. My apologies. I can be quite confrontational in debate and I absolutely hate when people only argue because they havent the courage to give way….im not accusing you of that btw
SHL
i wish they had of ran him in the dewhurst he would of won then we could of be spared the negatives vibes over the winter and spring form people who where mocking the horse and calling him crap
More than likely newyork, but should GW have been Champion 2yo?
Absolutely……we now know the Phoenix Stakes (were he clocked a cracking time) was no flash in the pan or fluke….Amadeus Mozart was flattered but no matter how you look at it he gave Red Clubs a serious thrashing without coming off the bit.
Sir Percy and Horatio Nelson ran in a good Dewhurst but surely were not question who Ballydoyle rated higher at two….their abilities were not even close.
Hindsight is a useful tool Aidan
<br>I thought HN would win the 2yo match up, but it’s irrelevant now
GW was undoubtably the best 2yo last year, his phoenix romp was really quite exceptional and no other 2yo was able to muster anything else on that scale.
Also, he wasnt as well rated for his national stakes win but i had been following the 3rd horse heatseeker so i watched the race and george washington destroyed him, not only that but o’brien used a group winner (amigoni) as a pace setter and he set a blistering pace. I never understood what was wrong with that race other than the lack of the expected 8 length romp, which i didnt think would happen anyway.
Quote: from empty wallet on 10:41 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]Hindsight is a useful tool Aidan
<br>I thought HN would win the 2yo match up, but it’s irrelevant now
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I would have thought that was highly unlikely, GW was easily the best two year old in Ireland. A class apart and i suspected he wouldnt train on.
SHL
Thats your opinion Sir Harry, but i’m of a different one, but we were never able to find out, which was a pity imo and thats not a reflection on the Ballydoyle decision not to run, it’s their horse and they thought they were making the right one
<br>I was on HN btw :(
Quote: from SirHarryLewis on 9:37 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]
Eh ok…but I think the posters point EP was that this years crop are up to standard with most years….ie, that they are not bad. Are we saying that on an average year (and I mean average) there would be several 3 year olds in the high twenties?? In other words, do you also think that likes of DT and Aarafa are unusually poor or below standard?? If not, then are why are we slating them.
BTW, when did HR get this number…what was he after the Irish Derby??<br>
Firtly i’m not slating em, i trying to be realistic
RPR European standard for 3yo miler is about 119, Araafa , Sir percy and GW are above this to varying degrees
<br>I’ve recently deleted all my UK ratings by accident and can’t remember everyone awarded, but i’m sure there area couple more in the low 120’s
DT, Araafa and GW are mid 120’s imo, others like Sir Percy, Hala Bek still need to prove themselse to this level imo, but i think they’re capable of it
Alexandrova would be the only Fillie in a similar rating band as the colts and can’t wait to see her take em on tbh
<br>SHL, don’t understand your HR Derby question
The problem now imo is that 10yr ago 3yrs were more tested they would run in the guineas derby irish derby eclispe king george etc but come september they where past there peak and the french horse cleaned up because they had, rested during the summer, now our trainers and owners have taken the same line so the top 3yrs miss out on these top summer races and wait for the arc breeders cup because they carry more glamour on a horse cv at stud
Can’t remenber 15 minutes ago newyork :biggrin: but it does look like connections prefer missing the summer and going for the big prizes like the Arc, Breders Cup
(Edited by empty wallet at 11:56 pm on Sep. 25, 2006)
Quote: from empty wallet on 11:29 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]
Quote: from SirHarryLewis on 9:37 pm on Sep. 25, 2006[br]
Eh ok…but I think the posters point EP was that this years crop are up to standard with most years….ie, that they are not bad. Are we saying that on an average year (and I mean average) there would be several 3 year olds in the high twenties?? In other words, do you also think that likes of DT and Aarafa are unusually poor or below standard?? If not, then are why are we slating them.
BTW, when did HR get this number…what was he after the Irish Derby??<br>
Firtly i’m not slating em, i trying to be realistic
RPR European standard for 3yo miler is about 119, Araafa , Sir percy and GW are above this to varying degrees
<br>I’ve recently deleted all my UK ratings by accident and can’t remember everyone awarded, but i’m sure there area couple more in the low 120’s
DT, Araafa and GW are mid 120’s imo, others like Sir Percy, Hala Bek still need to prove themselse to this level imo, but i think they’re capable of it
Alexandrova would be the only Fillie in a similar rating band as the colts and can’t wait to see her take em on tbh
<br>SHL, don’t understand your HR Derby question
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My point is that the current crop are not bad yet seem…not nescessarily from you……..to be getting alot of critism that suggests they are worst then most years.
The Dylan Thomas quesion relates to the fact that I think at this stage of his career he might have achieved the same things as HR……….certainly I would imagine shirroco didnt have the rating he has presently. So perhaps horses need time to get to those levels.
SHL
It seems to me that there are more top-class horses being kept in training at 4+ now, which makes it harder for each crop of 3yos to be as succesful as in previous years.
The last 3 Arc winners, the last 3 Irish Champion winners and the last 2 Champion Stakes winners were all 3yos so I reckon they’ve been doing a little better recently than what the general perception is.
Good shout Gareth, I think that speaks for itself. If a 3yo comes out and wins the Arc you’d have to put that down as a great performance this year considering they would be beating last years Arc and BC winners as well as Japan’s super horse and one of the two best mares in the world. This isn’t mentioning the 3yo achievements.
In years gone by they wouldn;t have had this level of competition as the previous years 3yo’s would be at stud already.
I think the winner of this years Arc will have to be recognised as one of the great middle distance horses of recent times..
The 3yos kept in training for the past few years have not been amazing in all fairness.
This year’s 4yos have been exceptional – I remember a thread around this time last year, questioning what middle-distance 4yos would be around since so many were injured or retired last year, but I believe this has been an exceptional year for racing, although definitely saddened by Mubtaker, Warrsan, Horatio Nelson and Electrocutionist.
In all fairness to ’em, the 3yos have done very well to hold their own. Say what you want, but I think Alexandrova should be the horse of the year, followed by George Washington and Dylan Thomas.
Hurricane Run and Shirocco have been fairly good, but nothing compared to the above 3 IMO.
The 3yos kept in training for the past few years have not been amazing in all fairness.
This year’s 4yos have been exceptional
Your contradicting yourself there Jack.. The point is that Shirocco and HR were the two best middle distance horses in the world last year (and could still be considered that as we don’t know yet if the 3yo’s can beat them. DT hasn’t done it against colts yet).. So if a 3yo beats them they have to be something special. And if Hr wins he goes down as a legend, and if Shirocco wins, then takes the BC same applies.. I think whoever wins the Arc will probably be horse of the year unless GW wins the BC mile.. It’s a shame SP isn’t there because you’d have the best irish/english/french middle distance 3yo’s plus Alexandrova if she runs (who is way ahead of anything else in the fillies) and then HR, Shirocco and DI.. Plus the leger winner, and various other top class performers.
It’s a shame SP isn’t there because you’d have the best irish/english/french middle distance 3yo’s plus Alexandrova if she runs
Dylan Thomas won’t be there either; in fact there won’t be a 2006 Derby winner in the lineup, which I think detracts from the race. Thankfully Rail Link will hose up for the 3yos…
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