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A third nervy post.
But without anyone getting patriotic, can anyone tell me in an unbiased view why the Irish Jockey’s dominate British racing.
I think I unerstand the breeding and buisness side but not the sportsman side. One needs to only take a look at the leading jockey’s in the RP to get a handle on things.
Chow for Now
Lamby150
Hi Lamby,
My unbiased opinion is that I don’t think they do dominate to be honest. Yes they have a very strong hand, but Ryan Moore and Seb Sanders, arguably (and most certainly statistically) two of the best jocks around, are both British.
In fact when you look at the flat jockeys championship there are Scots, English, Irish, Italian, Australian etc all prominent. I agree that collectively the Irish have more successful jockeys in Britain than any other nation, but I still wouldn’t go as far as saying Irish jockeys dominate British racing.
Mike
Hi Lamby,
I think this may have been touched on here before quite a while ago.
For my part I think it may have something to do with the Irish having less of an urban society/culture than us. A higher proportion of them grow up in a rural / semi-rural society and have more to do with horses from an early age. An affinity with the horse (and racing) that doesn’t reach too many English perhaps.
I’ve got dozens of relatives in Ireland and all of them from an early age were riding ponies and mixing with horsey folk.
The one-parent, high-rise, urban dwelling, i-pod, computer obsessed, and overweight spotty youths of our cities don’t "do" horses. Of course, that’s a generalisation, but you get my drift I hope.
Keep on posting, the wider a pool of views the better imo.When was the last time you saw a 7st teenager born in England?
I’ve got five nephews and they could make up a more than useful basketball team, but they all went past the minimum riding weight by the time they were fourteen.
I wonder if the impact of the changes in the Irish economy of recent years will reduce the flow of jockeys from there in time?
On a similar theme, how many of the top jockeys in the USA were actually born there – same problem of prosperity reducing the pool of youngsters that can do the weights.
AP
Micky I can’t agree about Sanders, he is ok but not top class,good journeyman you don’tsee him get many mounts in group 1 races. Moore will be top class but I think the Irish do dominate. When you consider the respective population of the countries about 50m against 5m it is a huge achievment.I think they are even more dominant in NH, Richard Johnson is the only uk rider to challenge them. Their amateurs also operate at a different level.
Good points, a large part of our population outside Dublin still live rurally and most kids are exposed at a young age, horse’s are part of the daily fabric of life over here.
Also the lack of mainstream motorised transport until the late 60’s and 70’s gave the horse much more importance in Irish society which has left an enduring legacy.
The largest factor may well be early exposure to pony racing, which is far bigger over here than in the UK. A lot of the top jocks cut their teeth on the highly competitive pony race circuit as youngsters which gave them early experience of close riding, tactics and pace- things that can’t be taught. A lot of our (especially NH) jockeys will have hunted as children which is another great way to learn the art of horsemanship.
There is no doubt early exposure to riding in pony races and here in Scotland common ridings play a big part in the formation of jockeys from these parts. Hawick and surrounding area has produced a lot of jockeys although mainly for jump racing.
Micky I can’t agree about Sanders, he is ok but not top class,good journeyman you don’tsee him get many mounts in group 1 races. Moore will be top class but I think the Irish do dominate. When you consider the respective population of the countries about 50m against 5m it is a huge achievment.I think they are even more dominant in NH, Richard Johnson is the only uk rider to challenge them. Their amateurs also operate at a different level.
I did say arguably and statistically
– which leads me to my favourite saying in the forum world,"You can argue an opinion, but you can’t argue a fact".
The facts are, that statistically he is one of the best. My opinion is of the same as yours, I personally don’t think he is one of the very best, but he is a good jockey who tries very hard, albeit as you say, in slightly lesser grade races most of the time.
Mike
I would add as a generalisation that the Irish riders tend to be more dedicated, are far more hard working, don’t moan all the time, and get on very well with all kinds of people. They have many Irish racing folklore heros to look up to and hope to emulate.
"…………They have many Irish racing folklore heros to look up to and hope to emulate…………"
………and English/British riders haven’t?
Colin
I would add as a generalisation that the Irish riders tend to be more dedicated, are far more hard working, don’t moan all the time, and get on very well with all kinds of people
Yes…always been struck by ryan Moores laziness and Mcevoys and Dettoris lack of people skills
Statistically, Ireland is more likely to produce more Flat jockeys than Britain as Irish children still have a greater chance of a malnourished upbringing and consequently stunted growth than do their mainland counterparts.
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Statistically, Ireland is more likely to produce more Flat jockeys than Britain as Irish children still have a greater chance of a malnourished upbringing and consequently stunted growth than do their mainland counterparts.
Which is probably why Scotland produces mainly jump jockeys – all those fried breakfasts and haggis & tatties.
The Welsh, of course, are better known for riding sheep.
Welsh very profound as usual
Yes, and Holyhead is so close for us to be sending some food parcels over.
"Ireland is a small, modern, trade-dependent economy with growth averaging 6% in 1995-2006. Agriculture, once the most important sector, is now dwarfed by industry and services. Industry accounts for 46% of GDP, about 80% of exports, and 29% of the labor force. Although exports remain the primary engine for Ireland’s growth, the economy has also benefited from a rise in consumer spending, construction, and business investment. Per capita GDP is 40% above that of the four big European economies and the second highest in the EU behind Luxembourg.[/color:2ckzajhi] "
I would add as a generalisation that the Irish riders tend to be more dedicated, are far more hard working, don’t moan all the time, and get on very well with all kinds of people
Yes…always been struck by ryan Moores laziness and Mcevoys and Dettoris lack of people skills
So you have to go to an Italian and an Australian to make a point??
"…………They have many Irish racing folklore heros to look up to and hope to emulate…………"
………and English/British riders haven’t?
Colin
Only if their grand dads had told them the folklore about Sir Gordon Richards and Lester Piggott. It has been an inspirational desert since.
I would expect that a UK city 15 year old could at best only name F Detorri as a British? jockey. Ask an Irish 15 year old about racing and he will go on for a couple of hours, chapter and verse.
– which leads me to my favourite saying in the forum world,
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