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This study was referenced on the Morning Line. Interesting ideas I think.
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2011/01/188.shtml
I’ve long been of the view that racing should do away with the whip, or at least do away with having jockeys hit horses with the whip. It adds little to the sport and detracts from it for many.
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There’s already a thread on this threadbare research, Corm:
https://theracingforum.co.uk/horse-r … 85087.html
The "science" here holds no water. Not worth the paper it’s printed on.
There’s already a thread on this threadbare research, Corm:
https://theracingforum.co.uk/horse-r … 85087.html
The "science" here holds no water. Not worth the paper it’s printed on.
Who else would have bet 1/100 that Pinza would be the second poster on this thread with the opposite point of view?
We have of course debated this before and the answer is still that it should only be used as a steering aid.
My own personal opinion is that jockeys do need a whip, it’s how they use it that’s the important factor IMO.
Just nearly finished reading the book ‘Fallon’ and a line in there I saw yesterday could teach a few….
Fallon to a young and new to the game Hayley Turner….."Hayley, whipping a tiring horse won’t make it run any faster"….!
Ah sorry Pinza – didn’t notice that other thread.
Interesting debate though. If you take the whip away the winner will be the one that responds best to hands and heels. What’s wrong with that.
The argument that the whip makes them go faster (whether the assertion is correct or not) is irrelevant in as much as they’d go faster if you administered an electric shock, but we don’t do that to them so why is striking the horse a blow with a whip deemed acceptable.
In 50 years (if we are still discussing racing) we’ll look back and wonder why on earth it took us so long to get rid of the whip.
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We have of course debated this before and the answer is still that it should only be used as a steering aid.
Your
answer, Stilvi, not
the
answer.
The main thing is to ignore people who don’t ask the right question in the first place.
Why not read this research, as I have, instead of sniping from the sidelines? I think you will understand that the methodology’s as full of holes as a leaky sieve, and is based on a logical theory of how races are run, and how horses use their energy, which is straight out of one of Tolkein’s ivory towers.
I personally don’t think it has to be all or nothing.
For me, the research is irrelevant; trainers should know which of their horses respond to the whip & which don’t so why not have two branches of racing for those that do & those that don’t?
At the very least, a more expanded ‘hands & heels series’ would provide some additional interest at the lower quality end of racing.
Not sure about ‘two branches’ but I’d be all for an extension of the ‘hands and heels’ series.
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The argument that the whip makes them go faster (whether the assertion is correct or not) is irrelevant in as much as they’d go faster if you administered an electric shock, but we don’t do that to them so why is striking the horse a blow with a whip deemed acceptable.
Chiswickian’s excellent latest contribution on the other thread addresses this very point, with a great insight from Mick Kinane. The whip is not to "make them go faster", or not always.
In 50 years (if we are still discussing racing) we’ll look back and wonder why on earth it took us so long to get rid of the whip.
The whip has been a part of racing since Roman times at least, and it will be around in another two millenia, assuming human beings are here at all. There’s a danger that we tend to view our own (Anglo-centric/puritanical) ethos as the ultimate point of progress. In 50 years our ideas will look as quaint as Victorian antimacassars seem to us now.
I’m in two minds about the whip.
Aesthetically, the whip can be a horrific sight, particularly to the uninitiated. For example, Calvin Borel’s ferocious, psychopathic assault on Rachel Alexander in the 2009 Woodward would put the most hard bitten punter off his exactas. Sickening stuff.
Watching the sport from the rails round the gaffs wouldn’t make you a fan either. Even the sound of the whip striking horseflesh can be offputting to the spectator.
But I watched a hands and heels race the other day over 6f and they were strung out like washing. Some of the old lags taking part wouldn’t go a yard without "persuasion:" That much was obvious. The finishes to those hands and heels races can be farcical too, with some weird rides inspiring forum rageometers the country over.
I can’t help but feel that without the whip, the sport wouldn’t be anywhere near as exciting, or valid – yet it pains me to say so.
If there’s one thing UK racecourse stewards do well, its the application of the whip rules. The whip rules as they stand adequately look after the welfare of the horse and the jockey. Its an issue that’s not broken, it doesn’t need fixing and the Aussie vets who compiled the report are wrong.
Another red herring issue, right up there with the mythical 2yo "Autumn Double".
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The report was commissioned by the RSPCA ( $20K ) and executed by scientists based in the USA. No Aussie horse racing vet went near it Mr Cav.
Cheers and have a good day.
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Hands and heels
…. hmmm…..
Can anyone amongst its proponents here enlighten me, as to how having a jockey repeatedly kicking a horse in the belly is either morally or aesthetically superior to smacking it on the quarters with a cushioned whip?
Max is right: whatever is said in
vox pop
referenda, or by animal rights activists, most racegoers feel that the whip adds to the sense of excitement and gets the adrenalin going, for horse, jockey and spectator alike.
But I watched a hands and heels race the other day over 6f and they were strung out like washing. Some of the old lags taking part wouldn’t go a yard without "persuasion:" That much was obvious. The finishes to those hands and heels races can be farcical too, with some weird rides inspiring forum rageometers the country over.
I can’t help but feel that without the whip, the sport wouldn’t be anywhere near as exciting, or valid – yet it pains me to say so.
Those are horses who have either don’t have the will to compete (on the day or altogether) or more likely who have been conditioned to respond to the whip throughout their racing career.
I’d like to see stricter whip rules but I’m not sure about eliminating it altogether. Padded whips are a plus too, if they won’t make horses who are used to sharper whips go faster it’ll make those brought up on padded whips run faster, so its a generational thing.
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Quite frankly that article is a crock from start to finish and these people are getting paid for old rope.
Of course if you flog a tired horse it won’t make an ounce of difference but who the heck does? Our jockey’s certainlt don’t as they have more sense and love of their horses to know when all is lost.
How about a horse who isn’t tired like Tidal Bay…..anyone think they could get him going without a smack on the ass?
Friggin nerds think they can work everything out on a computer… crazy muppets!!!
Anyone up for emailing AP and tell him to stop using his whip non alazy horse it doesn’t work?
Did anyone else think that Rodi Greene’s effort of The Giant Bolster was far from the legendary ride that some were making it out to be and to my eyes he was far too whip-happy.
None of the Channel 4 presenter mentioned it at all.
Thankfully he was banned for a couple of days but I just thought it scandalous no one criticised it.
Granted he maybe a big strong horse but he was being lashed at from before turning in. I’d have charged up the run-in if I was being whipped that frequently!
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