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I’ve just been reading an article in the sporting life which referred to Brave Inca, Hardy Eustace, Macs Joy and Harchibald as being a Golden Era for Irish hurdlers.
No one can deny that but was it a Golden Era for the Champion Hurdle full stop?
Which years were the tops in your view for class horses that crossed paths or dominated the race ?
Yes, well, there’s always one isn’t there? I’ve gone for 71-75. Did all 3 of Bula, Comedy of Errors and Lanzarote have their careers cut short?
Night Nurse, Monksfield, Sea Pigeon…nuff said !
76 – 81.
Though we were spoilt during the 70s for great hurdlers.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Night Nurse, Monksfield, Sea Pigeon…nuff said !
76 – 81.
Though we were spoilt during the 70s for great hurdlers.
All the greats were back then and previous to that….
What other sport in the world can claim that its performers are not getting better….Federer, Woods, Schumacher etc all considered one of the greatest (if not the greatest) in their sporting history yet racing’s modern day superstars are always considered inferior to previous greats.
Moscow Flyer and Master Minded and still rated below 2 mile chasers from years gone by.
The horses may be getting better/faster because of training methods, etc, but that doesn’t mean that it makes for a greater ‘era’.
Many feel that the heyday of motor racing was the 50’s. Football fans would argue that the 70’s represented a zenith. Tennis fans might hark back to the late 60’s and the days of Laver and Bille Jean King. Athletics fans (British ones anyway) would reminisce wistfully about the early 80’s and Coe/Ovett/Cram. Golfers may don the rose tinted specs when remembering Nicklaus and Palmer.
Just because competitiors are fitter/faster/stronger doesn’t mean that the ‘sport’ itself is any better for us spectators.
The horses may be getting better/faster because of training methods, etc, but that doesn’t mean that it makes for a greater ‘era’.
Many feel that the heyday of motor racing was the 50’s. Football fans would argue that the 70’s represented a zenith. Tennis fans might hark back to the late 60’s and the days of Laver and Bille Jean King. Athletics fans (British ones anyway) would reminisce wistfully about the early 80’s and Coe/Ovett/Cram. Golfers may don the rose tinted specs when remembering Nicklaus and Palmer.
Just because competitiors are fitter/faster/stronger doesn’t mean that the ‘sport’ itself is any better for us spectators.
Very few tennis fans would question if Federer or Nadal are not two of the greatest tennis players in history, golf the same for Tiger Woods, Schumacher the same for F1, Phelps and Thorpe the same for swimming, Bolt, Bekele in athletics etc etc.
Yet for some reason our modern greats are not just inferior to past greats….they are rated miles behind.
You use the term "heyday" Cormack…and I think its very appropriate when it comes to racing. I am not necessarily speaking of this hurdling era, but those rose tinted glasses certainly apply for many when referring to the past racing greats. Racing is the only sport thats like it.
As for the training methods…things have changed alot in other sports too.
I’m not sure exactly what your point is Aidan. If it is that there is a lack of objectivity when comparing current racing greats with those of the past then you may well have a point, up to a point.
However, I think the case has been made on here on many occasions that the current crop of chasers (Kauto/Denman/Master Minded in particular) are exceptional.
I also think that the exploits of AP McCoy have led to him being fairly widely excepted as the greatest jump jockey that ever put toe in a stirrup.
As for tennis I would ‘rate’ Sampras, at his prime, ahead of either of the current top pair while there is no real evidence to suggest that Shumacher, great as he was, was any better driver than Jackie Stewart, Fangio or Jim Clark. He did have faster cars, granted.
T.Woods, for all his legendary status, still trails Nicklaus (every bit as dominant in his day) in the Major count and if, as is often the case, he fails to regain his sparkle after his injury he may yet never overtake the Golden Bear.
I’d argue that, just as often as the reverse is true, there can be a tendency to over-value the exploits of the superstars of today (it is, in fact, explained by a psychological phenomenon called the ‘recency effect’ whereby people are prone to attach too much significance to the most recent events, this partially explains issues which occur in voting, for example, where people will place an illogical amount of weighting/emphasis, relatively, on the last thing they hear/see – I’ve been planning to evaluate this from a betting perspective but, as with many other ideas, haven’t had the time, I’m sure there is something in it though).
It is only in the fullness of the historical context that sporting events and performances can be accurately judged, in as much as such judgements can be accurate at all.
For me the golden era was from Persian War right through to Sea Pigeon, Fourteen consecutive top class winners.
Night Nurse, Monksfield, Sea Pigeon…nuff said !
76 – 81.
Though we were spoilt during the 70s for great hurdlers.
All the greats were back then and previous to that….
What other sport in the world can claim that its performers are not getting better….Federer, Woods, Schumacher etc all considered one of the greatest (if not the greatest) in their sporting history yet racing’s modern day superstars are always considered inferior to previous greats.
Moscow Flyer and Master Minded and still rated below 2 mile chasers from years gone by.
I know David has already pointed this out but I’m one of the older members on here and noone but no one praises Kauto Star more than I do. I’ve said time and time agin he’s the best I have seen since Arkle.
Master Minded is still on the drawing boord and is now sofar in front of everything over 2 miles all he has to do is repeat what he did last when he put up an Arkle like performance and I doubt anyone would argue that he is one of the best 2 milers if not thee best ever seen.
Istabraq is another recent Champion who I rate in my top 3 hurdlers of all time.
It’s when you compare the likes of Hardy Eustace to something like the front running Night Nurse you would have to be half daft not to recognise the latter ws a much superior animal…..or if someone thinks Best Mate would have won 3 Gold Cups if horses like Burrough Hill Lad and Captain Christie had run in his era is just laughable.
I can’t understand how anyone thinks it dificult or impossible to judge which horses were best just because they ran a long time ago or yesterday. I’m damn sure if one can spot a horse like Binocular and Zarkava months before they takes on a top class horses then one can judge just as easily if Persian War was a better horse than Rooster Booster.
Absolutely nothing to do with sentiment or which era they ran in.
Fists my general problem with your opinions is sheer consistency – you state on this thread nobody could argue HE, Hardy, Brave Inca et al were a Golden Generation of Irish Hurdlers, yet on another thread state to me that Hardy "Useless" is a "boat", one of the worse Champions of all time, and you wouldn’t have bought him for a fiver.
Which is it?
Fists my general problem with your opinions is sheer consistency – you state on this thread nobody could argue HE, Hardy, Brave Inca et al were a Golden Generation of Irish Hurdlers, yet on another thread state to me that Hardy "Useless" is a "boat", one of the worse Champions of all time, and you wouldn’t have bought him for a fiver.
Which is it?
The magic word is "Irish" mate. It was agreattime for the Irish because the only horse worth a pinch of salt in England was Detroit City who we later discovered ahd a heart decease.
I have and always said and always will say they are the worst bunch of hurdlers I have seen in 40 years,,,,,,,,,,was a terrible era. Only one horse I liked was Harchiblad and you can look back my posts and you will find I have said that more than once,,,,,,nothing inconsistant about it.
We have three of them running tomorrow BTW Hardy Eustace Sublimity and Brave Inca………1st 2nd and 3rd fav……….do you think they will fill the first 3 places? looks like they have nothing to beat
For me the golden era was from Persian War right through to Sea Pigeon, Fourteen consecutive top class winners.
I was lucky to see the great Persian War run in a Scottish Champion Hurdle at Ayr in the early 70s and then Sea Pigeon, Night Nurse, Birds Nest and Decent Fellow regularly in the same race and saw the last race of the highly rated Golden Cygnet who walked away from a fall at the last when hacking up but died later at the Vet Hospital in Edinburgh, oh what might have been.
Although Sea Pigeon, Night Nurse etc was the Golden Age, this will sound a contradiction, but Persian War at his best would have finished well clear of them.
Bbobbell? Can’t have that. Night Nurse and Monkey were the ultimate warriors. Persian War was a mighty horse too. To say he would have finished "well clear" of these two legends is not on. It would have been a battle royale with Monkey just edging it for me – BUT saying all that they ALL would have been left trailing in the wake of the greatest NH hurdler of all time in the Cygnet. Of THAT I have no doubt.
And without opinions, there’s no forum.
As you might have gathered, I bloody love Monksfield, but I just have a feeling that Persian War would have done him on the run-in.(I’ve just finished ‘The Persian War Story’ – what with the tales of running PW with a wind problem, the owner entering him up while the trainer was on holiday (!) and the vain attempts to land the French Champion Hurdle……….how many might he have won if he was looked after ??)
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