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I’ve always said that the best steeplechaser in the country wins the King George, but the best steeplechaser on the day wins the Gold Cup. Although I’ve never been a fully paid up member of the Kauto Star fan club, I can’t go back on what I’ve said and what I believe.
Fist, Ruby Walsh said that Kauto Star was never travelling after he clattered that fence. Even to the un trained eye it was evident that he was not moving with any great fluency. He may, as you say ( who knows ) have made a race of it had he not fallen – but it is my opinion that he would still not have beaten the winner.
Kauto Star will be eleven come Cheltenham 2011. The stats alone are against him re-gaining his Gold Cup crown. He may still be up to taking another King George in December, given his love for the easy three miles round Kempton but, don’t let sentiment blight your reasoning; if you truly believe he will be the force of old come Cheltenham next year ( should he make it there ), then good luck to you and happy punting. I just happen to think it would be a Gold Cup too far.
Also to Dalry Bear:
No need to defend Arkle’s position at the top of the chasing tree or his superiority over Kauto Star. It’s all there in black and white – speaking of which… come on St. Mirren !
We only need 9 men!!!
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All very good points of view.
What I always find amazing about who is better i.e Arkle,Kauto Star etc, is the fact that nobody ever questions the fact that Istabraq was the greatest hurdler we have ever seen.
Amazing how nobody every challenges this, just testiment to the horse…
Peopl will continue to debate on the Arkle subject but nobody ever debates on Istabraq, thats because there is no debate, he was is and will be the greatest hurdler ever…
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I’ve just returned from a Corona-fuelled weekend in Birmingham and so may not be at my best, but are people really suggesting that Kauto Star has gone from putting in the best performance of a stunning career in the King George to ‘past it’ in just three months? Let’s be grateful Lewis Hamilton didn’t take the same stance when failing to retain his F1 World Championship last year; we might have ended up losing him to ‘Der Erste Fahren’, Switzerland’s premier mini-cab company.
It’s true to say that the mistake Kauto Star made at the seventh fence was horrific, but it was an error that would have taken most horses out of the race completely. He kept going. He’d travelled and jumped brilliantly until that point and despite not moving with the fluency and grace we know he can afterwards, he was still in with every chance when departing.
That is not a horse on the downgrade. That’s class.
And who’s to say he wouldn’t have won, or at the very least finished a competitive second? At no stage of the race in 2008 did he look like the Kauto Star we know and love, but he kept grinding and grinding and grinding and was actually closing on Denman towards the line. It could be argued that he was actually travelling better this year – he came back on the bit at least once on the back straight – than he was then, in spite of the mistake, so any suggestion that he was out of contention is (in my opinion) wholly unfounded.
It depresses me that people are ready and willing to write off a horse of Kauto Star’s calibre following defeat in the most prestigious race for staying chasers run in this country. It’s not as though he was plodding around Plumpton on a Monday afternoon, was it?
He lost to Monet’s Garden at Ascot and came back. He lost to Denman and Our Vic and came back. He almost lost to L’Ami and came back. He’s a horse beyond comparison, unrestricted by convention, statistics and perception. Age may take its toll in the time leading up to the 2011 Gold Cup, but a lost cause he is not.
All very good points of view.
What I always find amazing about who is better i.e Arkle,Kauto Star etc, is the fact that nobody ever questions the fact that Istabraq was the greatest hurdler we have ever seen.
Amazing how nobody every challenges this, just testiment to the horse…
Peopl will continue to debate on the Arkle subject but nobody ever debates on Istabraq, thats because there is no debate, he was is and will be the greatest hurdler ever…
Actually, Persian War, the toughest of the tough, would have slaughtered Istabraq so would Night Nurse at his best and Bula and Commedy of Errors would have given him a run for his money. Well, you did ask. And goodness knows what Golden cygnet would have done has he survived his fall at Ayr which I saw.
I’ve just watched the race for the first time on TV and I must say that it was like watching a different race from the one I saw at Cheltenham.
When my nerves get the better of me, the pessimist usually comes out! I also didn’t want to go though with watching Kauto’s fall again, which was even worse than I remember.
I can’t believe how well the horse was going at the point of departure. I initially thought he was beaten at the time, but I couldn’t be more wrong.
He was given a reminder by Ruby after jumping the eighth from home, but he wasn’t exactly being scrubbed along like in 2008. He absolutely flew the sixth last and was three lengths down at the top of the hill, responding to pressure and just two lengths behind when taking off at the fourth last.
Imperial Commander and Denman were going well, but Kauto looked as though he was coming back on to the bridle at the time after finding a rhythm, which began after he pinged the sixth last.
His defeat is even harder to take because I think he had a shout of being in the mix and we all know how well he fights and stays. It certainly would have been interesting.
After watching the replay a couple of times, anyone who thinks he’s finished are seriously over-reacting. It all depends on how much ability he retains for next seasons campaign. If he retains 90% of his unparalleled ability, he will be thereabouts next March at Cheltenham.
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I think what led people to believe Kauto was definitely beaten was the fact just before 5 out Ruby was pushing him up to get into a position where he wasn’t going to get caught out by the about to come increase in pace. He would know better than anyone outside of AP exactly when it was going to happen so really he had no choice in the matter.
Once there Ruby dropped his hands again and Kauto came back on the bridle but unfortunately just as he did AP pressed the button and Ruby had to ask Kauto who was just settling into a rhythm to quicken yet again.
He reacted well and was just getting back at them when he fell.
In a sense Ruby has made too much use of him in a very short space of time and it’s just been too much for the horse to take in and he’s got the next all wrong and come down.
Not blaming Ruby by saying that he did the right thing, had AP kicked after the 4th last and not before most likely the breather would have seen Kauto back in rhythm and every chance he could have won.
With Denman around, sadly for Kauto, you don’t get time for breathers especially in the latter stages of a race.
Imperial Commander won very well but he took a long time to shake off Denman in comaparison to how easily shrugged him off last season.
You could argue Denman wasn’t in as good form at this time last season but I doubt if there would be much difference at the point of the race where Kauto left him standing like a tree.
The way it turned out we were robbed of a little bit of history being made but there’s always next year when Kauto can join the elite winners of 3 Gold Cup.
He is the only horse to regain the Gold Cup and it seems unthinkable but with a horse like Kauto Star just about anything is possible.
Denman may not be around next year if the National is to be his main target but I really don’t think Kauto’s performances at Cheltenham have too much to do with him.
The course itself will very often catch out a horse who is prone to mistakes. If it wasn’t I think we might have been celebrating Kauto’s 4th win in the race but at the end of the day it wasn’t meant to be.
I’m looking forward to these two clashing again hopefully at Haydock when Kauto will put the record straight and show everyone he is no back number.
IC is a better horse round Cheltenham than Haydock so little will be answered there ref next years gold cup. Kauto will still be untouchable at kempton but I think he will be trained with the KG as his primary goal next season. Kauto is streets ahead of any other horse round Kempton but he simply doesn’t take to Cheltenham with similar dominance and any age related decline will be seen at Prestbury park. An eight year old Kauto didn’t get into the 2008 gold cup race. A 10 year old Kauto didn’t put his best effort forward in 2010. An 11 year old Kauto has it all to do next year against younger opposition. I believe Kauto’s 2009 effort would have won the gold cup this year incidentally but I feel PN should concentrate on building the great horses legacy at Kempton next year.
I’m not predicting the end of Kauto Star but he is definitely past his best. There is no doubt that French breds who start their racing careers younger end them younger. Look at Voy Por Ustedes. He should be retired now. I think Nicholls knows Kauto’s time is coming to an end with talk of Big Bucks going chasing and What a Friend taking part in Cheltenham Gold Cup next year. I’d fancy Kauto to win easily that historic 5th King George and then finish in the places in next years Gold Cup before being retired.
What of Denman though?
I think you’ll find Big Buck’s will have one more season over hurdles. Maybe a hint from Nicholls that the King is far from finished
If Kauto Star has declined/regressed whatever you want to call it then I’d say Bucksy will be campaigned over fences next year, whch I doubt will happen!
I think you’ll find Big Buck’s will have one more season over hurdles. Maybe a hint from Nicholls that the King is far from finished
If Kauto Star has declined/regressed whatever you want to call it then I’d say Bucksy will be campaigned over fences next year, whch I doubt will happen!
I really think where Big Bucks go never year depends on what other chasers he has. I think Denman, Kauto are gone (in terms of a Gold Cup Challenge) and you’d be looking at What a Friend, Pride of Dulcote etc to step up to the plate. If they don’t, Big Bucks will be chasing.
There is nothing to suggest Kauto has regressed, as Fist and Bosranic say, alot of over reacting. The mistake Kauto made would have put most out of the race but he was good enough to keep in touch, Kauto was sat 2nd before the mistake close to Carruthers and had he swung in the home straight with a lead no horse in that field would have chased him down. He was coming back into the race at his time of departure and there was alot of race to run, had he not have come down, IC would have had to fight him off come the line if he was to win thats for sure. But hey, thats jumps racing and mistakes are crucial.
As for the comments on Voy Por, I would be mindful of the terrible season Alan King has had, clearly something is not right close to home there. Voy Por ran a solid race first time back this year, he made mistakes that day but gave 6lbs to Albertas Run and was beaten just 4.75 lengths. He’s never at his best on his seasonal bow and always improved for a run and been better in the spring time. That run suggested he was as good as ever but over the season he hasn’t fired like many horses in Alan Kings yard. Back at level weights beaten so far against Albertas Run the margain of defeat was too bad to be true.
I don’t disagree that Kauto could have been in the shake up had he stayed up but I just think this time next year is a different story, when he’ll be 11 and there are younger horses coming through to challenge him.
You’re assuming he’s going to go backwards because of his age, an assumption that is poor in it’s entirety, their may be young horses around but they have to reach a massive standard, he may well retain his ability at 11, something we won’t know until he steps on a racecourse again. Monets Garden has run up to his very best this year at 12 years of age. I would say it’s best to see him out on the racecourse next season instead of just guessing that he’ll regress.
You’re assuming he’s going to go backwards because of his age, an assumption that is poor in it’s entirety, their may be young horses around but they have to reach a massive standard, he may well retain his ability at 11, something we won’t know until he steps on a racecourse again. Monets Garden has run up to his very best this year at 12 years of age. I would say it’s best to see him out on the racecourse next season instead of just guessing that he’ll regress.
Ah Monets Garden, an Irish bred horse I think you’ll find which was what I was saying regarding French bred regressing earlier. Once past our peak, we all get slower human and horse.
Just remember that Kauto Star has had a very light campaign for the past 2 years, thereby taking a good few miles off the clock. Oh how we all mocked Henrietta Knight for doing so with her horses.
Theres hardly any point in discussing what would have happened if Kauto hadn’t fallen, or even if he hadn’t hit the eigth fence. Jumping is all part of the equation in NH racing and I wouldnt be taking a horse with a 50/50 record over gold cup fences to win the race in his 11th year. Unless the price was right, ofc.
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