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Who are the most prominent sires when it comes to rain-affected going performers?
I’m pretty sure Singspiel is either one of the best, or one of the worst.
My knowledge is weak when it comes to the wet track performers and their pedigrees.
flatstats website list
firm soft ratio
turtle island 2.5 14.0 5.6
shernazar 4.4 21.7 4.9
dilum 2.2 8.8 3.6
astonef 2.0 7.3 3.50
salt dome 2.6 9.0 3.43worst
royal academy 12.2 4.4
gone west 19.6 6.9
pharly 17.0 5.9
horage 20.5 6.7
formidable 7.3 2.4my fav is Roselier
That list is way out of date – Pharly, Salt Dome, Formidable and Horage died years ago. The site must have closed down.
Indian Ridge? Have I got the correct name…sired Indian Ink(?) who Richard Hughes won on at Royal Ascot in ’07.
Singspiel has the worst record of any major sire on going softer than good compared to performance on all types of going and opportunity.
I’ll post more at some later date: gotta pop out now.
Considering Singspiel himself was effective on soft ground, and his Grand-sire is Sadlers Wells, I’m quite suprised his progeny have such a favouritism for quick ground.
It must be from his dam’s side – his half brother Rahy acted well on fast ground, as do many of his offspring eg Fantastic Light.
For 6f to 1 mile (obviously depending on dam side stamina etc) the ones I would generally show a leaning towards in terms of dampened ground would be:
Indian Ridge
Pivotal
Kyllachy
Danehill Dancer
Captain Rio
Polar Falcon
Bahamian Bounty
VerglasAlthough Dandy Man might suggest otherwise I always found that Mozarts were generally better with cut underfoot, and have a suspicion that rock of gibraltars are that way inclined aswell.
Upwards of that theres the Sadlers Wells offshoots, and I would incude Singspiel in that, along with Galileo, Montjeu, In The Wings etc. Also
Sinndar
Goldaway
Darshaan (well shirley heights line generally)
Rainbow Quest (although dont usually back them often)
Highest Honor (mud lovers)Apologies for my bias, but I’m sure that Monsun and Acatenango must be at the top of list for soft ground sires. There are several other good German sires such as Samum and Dai Jin who have done well domestically, particularly on soft ground but as yet are not really well known outside Germany.
Darren – AngloGerman
Apologies for my bias, but I’m sure that Monsun and Acatenango must be at the top of list for soft ground sires. There are several other good German sires such as Samum and Dai Jin who have done well domestically, particularly on soft ground but as yet are not really well known outside Germany.
Darren – AngloGerman
Definitely, was just going for the ones that came off the top of my head that are regulars on the flat in the UK at the minute. Funny you should mention Dai Jin, but was going through a box of old mail the other week and found an e/w slip on him from the dalakhani arc (beaten obviously), I take it he is doing well in germany with his first crop 3yos.
Actually, Liang Kay, one of Dai Jins progeny, won the Group 3 Dr Busch Memorial at Krefeld on Sunday, regarded as one of the top Classic trails in Germany. The ground was pretty soft that day, and the win had marked Liang Kay out as possibly Germanys top 3 year old this season.
Oh yes, and he was 7th in the 2003 Arc.
Darren – AngloGerman
I made an exhaustive study of my own on that subject 4 years ago (75 sires in Germany with 3,336 winners and 8,233 races won, 41.5 % of all races were run on soft/heavy/deep going). Of the sires still active Perceive Arrogance and Law Society showed a slightly better result of races won on the soft side oft the going than Monsun.
I’ve just checked the top 10 sires for 2008 in Germany on the DVR website, and I was quite shocked to see that neither Percieve Arrogance, Law Society, or even Monsun made the top 10 (Rating done by earnings):
1 – Big Shuffle
2 – Tiger Hill
3 – Dashing Blade
4 – Second Set
5 – Dai Jin
6 – Silvano
7 – Areion
8 – Protektor
9 – Goofalik
10 – SingspielOK, it’s only 4 months in to the season, but I’m still quite surprised, although I’m also quite pleased, having just bought a 2 year old filly who is out of a Second Set mare. Now this top 10 doesn’t mention the ground, however, I don’t think there’s been a turf meeting in Germany this year that hasn’t been on soft.
Darren – AngloGerman
Pivotal?
Definitely. They love soft which baffles me slightly as most Pivotals have a fast ground action.
This subject fascinates me as imo it’s the single most important criteria in racing.
I’ve just checked the top 10 sires for 2008 in Germany on the DVR website, and I was quite shocked to see that neither Percieve Arrogance, Law Society, or even Monsun made the top 10 (Rating done by earnings) …
Off course my analysis is not up to date, but the current prizemoney-won is no indication to a sire’s affinitity to going preferences of his progreny. In my view this alleged influence generally is over-estimated.
Big Shuffle currently leads the German prizemoney-ranking by his many offsprings and their success on the dirt-tracks from January to March. Tiger Hill andSecond Set owe their good placings in the ranking by just one win of their best sons so far this season (Oriental Tiger won 1 of 2 German G3, Black out won 1 of 4 LR run so far).
Following is the "mudders’ index" derived from data published about many of the leading sires in Racing Post last summer. It compares strike-rate by sire on ground softer than good with strike-rate on all turf going 2001-2007, so that a figure of 1.30 indicates 1.3 times as many offspring won on ground softer than good compared to all goings and 1.00 is the same on both.
I tend to think it suggests that in most cases there is not a great deal of mileage in this.
SIRE……………Softer than good factor
ATRAF………………… 0.84
AVERTI…………………1.14
BAHAMIAN BOUNTY..1.04
BARATHEA…………….0.95
BERTOLINI…………….0.66
CADEAUX GENEREUX..0.98
CAPE CROSS………..0.72
COMPTON PLACE…..0.99
DANEHILL……………..0.99
DANEHILL DANCER…1.06
DANETIME…………….0.84
DANSILI…………………0.60
DESERT PRINCE……..0.78
DESERT STYLE……….0.61
DIESIS……………………0.99
DIKTAT…………………..1.14
DR FONG……………….1.23
EFISIO…………………..1.02
FASLIYEV ………………0.80
GALILEO………………..0.90
GRAND LODGE…………0.65
GREEN DESERT………..0.62
HALLING………………..0.92
IN THE WINGS………….1.13
INDIAN RIDGE…………….0.91
INVINCIBLE SPIRIT……..0.70
KALANISI………………….0.83
KINGMAMBO……………….0.71
KING’S BEST……………….1.30
KYLLACHY………………….1.23
MACHIAVELLIAN…………..0.96
MARJU……………………..0.80
MONTJEU…………………..1.02
MUJAHID……………………1.03
MULL OF KINTYRE……….0.80
NAMID………………………1.03
NIGHT SHIFT……………….0.84
ORPEN………………………1.01
PEINTRE CELEBRE………1.08
PICCOLO……………………0.99
PIVOTAL…………………….1.04
ROCK OF GIBRALTAR…..0.98
ROYAL APPLAUSE………0.88
SADLER’S WELLS………..1.07
SAKHEE…………………….0.80
SELKIRK…………………….0.92
SHINKO FOREST………….0.87
SINGSPIEL…………………..0.54
SPECTRUM………………….1.00
SPINNING WORLD…………0.99
TAGULA………………………0.94
TOBOUGG…………………..1.12
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