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Agreed, how about Well Chief then?
Didn’t he beat Master Minded last time they met and finish closer to him in last year’s Champion, than he did to Twist Magic yesterday?
I’m not convinced that Twist Magic will throw in another 170-ish run at Cheltenham but I don’t think we can say he beat nothing yesterday.
It does appear that Oh Crick’s position could hold the form down but he is still quite young and could be improving.
It is all about opinions, isn’t it?
Colin
The problem here is whats called Stubborn pride! Certain members of the forum are frustrated at being proved wrong about just how good Twist Magic really is and they just cant accept it!Those of us that really know their horses have always kept the faith in his ability,as he has certainly shown he has plenty!I am an opinionated person who very rarely is wrong but at least on those very rare occassions that i am wrong i will put my hands up!So to all those who still cant see that Twisty is without doubt at least the 2nd best chaser in the country that gets 2 miles at a gallop standing on his head,then take it on the chin now,because he might just knock you out in the Big one!
Twist Magic was running on empty after the last according to some people yet Petit Robin who was stopping almost to a walk needs two and a half miles apparently.
Twist Magic’s stamina isn’t even questionable as far as I’m concerned. I tend to agree with TAPK people have their beliefs and boy do they take some changing.
Is thought both Twist Magic and Petit RObin were better than the bare form yesterday. They pressed on a long way out and the rest are a bit flattered just to close back up on them late.
Is thought both Twist Magic and Petit RObin were better than the bare form yesterday. They pressed on a long way out and the rest are a bit flattered just to close back up on them late.
I would agree with that. McCoy tried to serve it up to the favourite and would’ve run out a comfortable winner if the Nicholls horse hadn’t been in the race. Had Petit Robin not run and Ruby had been able to get a breather into Twist Magic he’d have won even easier.
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The problem here is whats called Stubborn pride! Certain members of the forum are frustrated at being proved wrong about just how good Twist Magic really is and they just cant accept it!Those of us that really know their horses have always kept the faith in his ability,as he has certainly shown he has plenty!I am an opinionated person who very rarely is wrong but at least on those very rare occassions that i am wrong i will put my hands up!So to all those who still cant see that Twisty is without doubt at least the 2nd best chaser in the country that gets 2 miles at a gallop standing on his head,then take it on the chin now,because he might just knock you out in the Big one!
I will repeat – just for your benefit – it isn’t a question of how good he is, merely how well he stays, and I’d still maintain that his ability to see out a truly run QMCC against a half decent field remains highly questionable.
Watching the race with my wife, I opined before the start that he may well get turned over, a view I revised immediately Petit Robin uprooted the first fence after Swinley Bottom. PR then proceeded to try and floor himself at most of the remaining fences and was never going to see the race out after that initial error. Despite all this, Twist Magic went from lobbing turning in to being ridden right out from jumping the 2nd last, even without any opposition to harry him, and his stride visibly shortened from that point, (Not just my observation, but borne out by Richard Hoile’s commentary), and Ruby even had to give him a reminder when 12l clear in the shadow of the winning post.
The race overall just confirmed the view I have long held, (one supported by the vast majority of his form – both chases and hurdles) that he doesn’t have the stamina to win all but the poorest of Champion Chases.I think its dangerous to make negative assumptions about Twist Magic at Cheltenham based on his last 2 runs there.
To me he looks a completely different horse this season. You see it with the Ballydoyle horses as well, they way they get into the horses head, its almost as if they brainwash them. What was most taking about Twist Magic on Saturday is how professional he was. Totally focused, never came off a straight line and showed superb concentration jumping at speed, made the rest look like amateurs. Petit Robin couldn’t handle him at all, his concentration went to pot when he had to jump upsides Twist Magic.
Cant see the problem with stamina, he’ll be going a furlong less and seconds per furlong median times have Cheltenham and Ascot almost identical.
Given all of Master Minded problems, the fact he’s already beaten Kalahari King, the question marks about Forpadydeplasterers class at this level (granted Cheltenahm really suits him), Big Zebs lack of tenacity, I reckon 6/1 still looks on the generous side. I read Tom Segal’s piece about Twist Magic in The Weekender, I think he’s spot on.
Twist Magic’s first run of this season was over 2m 2f. at Exeter (a stiff enough track) and, granted he was held up and never really contested the lead, appeared to get that well enough, finishing third.
Colin
Twist Magic looked a picture in the paddock before the race. Maybe he is a reformed character.
The problem here is whats called Stubborn pride! Certain members of the forum are frustrated at being proved wrong about just how good Twist Magic really is and they just cant accept it!
I will repeat – just for your benefit –
I will repeat – just for yours – Twist Magic has always had masses of ability,alongside a temperament that equally sees him have days where he cant be bothered! Team Nicholls have found the key to him and thats to let him run from the front,he loves it! NOTHING to do with stamina,get that into your head! Although i sometimes wonder if you suffer from the same syndrome as Twisty! Stubborness!
The race overall just confirmed the view I have long held, (one supported by the vast majority of his form – both chases and hurdles) that he doesn’t have the stamina to win all but the poorest of Champion Chases.
The problem you have hear,is now that Twisty has shown on numerous occassions that the trip has never been an issue,those that once thought along your lines of thinking have now realised that he is a serious horse who can race at a gallop that basically takes the sting out of the opposition and Ruby judges is that so well,that obviously the horse is going to come under pressure close home,he"s ran them into the ground!You seem to struggle with that! Stubborness is curable!
The problem you have is you have missed the big prices for the Champion Chase,i"ll let you have the crumbs off my table and get on at 6/1!There"s hope for you yet!- Total Posts 17716
Twist Magic’s first run of this season was over 2m 2f. at Exeter (a stiff enough track) and, granted he was held up and never really contested the lead, appeared to get that well enough, finishing third.
Colin
Colin
I’d suggest Twist Magic was held up for exactly the same reason he is at Cheltenham – despite all the bluster from his stable, they are still unsure of his stamina.
Even then, he was actually losing ground on the 2 principals from the last fence and, even in a poor Champion Chase, he’ll be meeting better horses than beat him there.
Anyone like to bet he won’t be held up this year?
…………the fact that he went off at 16/1 at Exeter and that it was his first run might also have something to do with the tactics. The fact that he lost ground after the last isn’t that significant, in my opinion……..bit of a scouting mission I would have thought.
Colin
Anyone like to bet he won’t be held up this year?
So you"re prepared to bet he will be held up
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I think its dangerous to make negative assumptions about Twist Magic at Cheltenham based on his last 2 runs there.
To me he looks a completely different horse this season. You see it with the Ballydoyle horses as well, they way they get into the horses head, its almost as if they brainwash them. What was most taking about Twist Magic on Saturday is how professional he was. Totally focused, never came off a straight line and showed superb concentration jumping at speed, made the rest look like amateurs. Petit Robin couldn’t handle him at all, his concentration went to pot when he had to jump upsides Twist Magic.
Cant see the problem with stamina, he’ll be going a furlong less and seconds per furlong median times have Cheltenham and Ascot almost identical.
Given all of Master Minded problems, the fact he’s already beaten Kalahari King, the question marks about Forpadydeplasterers class at this level (granted Cheltenahm really suits him), Big Zebs lack of tenacity, I reckon 6/1 still looks on the generous side. I read Tom Segal’s piece about Twist Magic in The Weekender, I think he’s spot on.
Cav
Median times wouldn’t be the way to judge stiffness, Huntingdon for instance, also has similar median times to the above 2.
Though there are any number of variables which affect stamina, the QMCC has 2 major differences to Ascot’s 2m course – the strength of its fields, and going up the hill twice. Both will count on the day.Cav
Median times wouldn’t be the way to judge stiffness, Huntingdon for instance, also has similar median times to the above 2.
Though there are any number of variables which affect stamina, the QMCC has 2 major differences to Ascot’s 2m course – the strength of its fields, and going up the hill twice. Both will count on the day.Hi Reet. I have Ascot at 14.98 s/f, Cheltenham (Old Course) 14.95 s/f and Huntingdon at 14.50 s/f. At 0.5 s/f difference X 16 furlongs X 3 lengths per 1/2 second (just ball park figures) Huntingdon would be approximately 50 lengths shorter over 2m – 2m1f. Just a rough working out you understand, but the course configurations do back this up.
Up to now I’d have rowed in with the stamina concerns but we’re dealing with a different horse this season, maybe his issues were mental more than stamina.
Interesting to note Twist Magic ran almost an identical time to Master Minded in the same race last year despite the official going being softer on Saturday. Granted I haven’t looked at the time corrected going yet.
I’m with Reet on this one- for whatever reason, Cheltenham has been shown not to suit TM and I’d actually back Petit Robin to improve on last year’s 3rd (assuming they don’t chicken out and go for the Ryanair) before I’d back him. His persisitent lugging and jumping left was a huge handicap at Ascot.Time will tell which of the TRF factions will come out right on this one, but the mantra I always repeat to the troops the night before the Festival is "course form, course form and course form!"
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