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What makes me laugh Ginge is Republicans think Democrats are Socialist, even communist – they are anything but.
Goodness knows what they would have called Corbyn’s Labour.
I’m not sure if it was Alastair Campbell or another Labourite who went over to help the Democrats in one election and they famously commented “I didn’t realise I was going over to promote Tory policies”
What makes me laugh Ginge is Republicans think Democrats are Socialist, even communist – they are anything but.
Indeed. Although they’re not the force within the party they were, the ‘Southern Democrats’ were upholders of the racial segregation endemic within the southern states into the mid 60s and remain, to the best of my limted knowledge of US politics, largely a bible-bashing reactionary bunch
The Democrats as a whole are essentially a technocratic centrist party wandering to right and currently somewhat to the left; though only to those who regarded the Blair administrations as ‘left’
The decision to impeach Trump might be morally correct but I fear that both the Dmeocrats and Republicans might live to regret the decision: if the Senate block the impeachment it will empower the Trumpists to field either Trump himself or a clone in 2024, splitting the GOP; if they uphold the impeachment then the types who stormed the Capitol will feel even more aggrieved, leading to increasing civil unrest, which will be a major headache for the Biden administration, and could well dominate his term in office
Could be Republicans will blame any future violence / unrest on the impeachment… Which is worrying in itself. However, although when Democrats first started saying about impeachment I would’ve agreed it might embolden the far right violence. Now having listened to what this group is saying I don’t think they could get more emboldened. Civil unrest would’ve been just as bad without impeachment.
Also, the thing that just might stop or at least lessen civil unrest is Trump’s words. Impeachment has already made him come out with a video “against” the Capitol violence. That may well be too late but is worth a chance especially if going further in his discouragement in future videos. The influential republican leader of the senate, Mitch McConnell’s words – implying he’ll vote for it – has put pressure on Trump to modderate his actions and language… At least until Biden takes over and/or the Senate sit.
There’s also got to be consequences for encouraging insurrection. Otherwise it makes this type of behaviour more likely to happen again with other Presidents…
…And if the Senate does succeed Trump will be banned from standing again.
imo Worth trying.
value is everythingYou can’t stop or vote against impeachment based on threats of violence and unrest from his supporters. If you do that you may as well give them the keys to The White House.
By the way, I’d love to see your workings for that particular statement.
I’m not a Labour voter but my vote doesn’t count anyway. They’d vote for a chimp as long as he was wearing a blue rosette round here, the only difference you might notice is that the chimp would be more competent.
Corbyn and cronies in his cabinent (including Staamer) tried to convince people he (Corbyn) wasn’t as far left as he actually was.
value is everythingJust because the BBC did a mock up of Corbyn in a Russian hat or The Sun reckons he’s a time travelling Bolshevik sent here to impose a socialist paradise upon us doesn’t make it so.
How’s that work of fiction known as the Tory manifesto coming along anyway? Plenty of people were conned into voting for that.
Impeachment is a difficult choice, as has already been pointed out, it’s damned if you do damned if you don’t.
On balance, at the moment I would say it’s the right decision, as his actions cannot go unpunished
I can see a tactical reason for it also.
If, as some suggest, Trump is going to pardon himself then a retrospective impeachment is a way of stopping him running in 2024, Impeachment is exempt from Presidential pardoning. I think a self-pardon would probably trigger enough Rep Senators to switch sides.
If, against expectations, Trump doesn’t self-pardon, then there is no point in continuing with impeachment as he would leave himself open to investigation by the Federal authorities into his role (plus countless other investigations) – the only trouble in terms of an incitement charge is the Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969) Supreme Court ruling where they effectively said the First Amendment right to free speech Trumps (no pun intended) the crime of incitement.
Ginge, I would not pay much attention to Trump’s seemingly contrite speech the other evening. That entire statement was clearly drafted by his lawyers as a damage limitation exercise.
Ironically Twitter have, inadvertently, done Trump a big favour by banning him – had he still been on Twitter you would have seen his true reaction to the impeachment and he would probably have dug himself into a deeper hole
Nothing to do with the BBC, Sun, or even Conservatives, Richard.
Do you not remember how the MPs in his own party reacted to Jeremy Corbyn becoming leader? Majority of Labour MPs refused to sit in the shadow cabinet because of Corbyns far left political views. MP’s of the country’s primary left wing party not wanting to work with its leader because he’s too left wing.
Corbyn’s left hand man (and once prospective Chancellor Of The Exchequer!) was / is a self proclaimed Marxist. Even waving his little red book at the despatch box. Think about it. We’d have had a confirmed Marxist in charge of the UK economy!
Corbyn himself described Marx as a “great economist“.
Corbyn wrote for the far left newspaper Morning Star.Do you remember the then Labour leader Neil Kinnock getting rid of the old far left Militant tendency?… Jeremy Corbyn fought so hard to stop his friends leaving.
When Labour was last in power the Labour MP that voted most times against his own government was Jeremy Corbyn… Primarily because until he became Labour leader Labour (the biggest left wing party in the UK) was not left wing enough for him.
He’s always reticent to blame Russia for anything, eeven in the Skripal poisoning case.
Isn’t that enough?
For sure IF a voter knew all these things then fair enough.
But not everyone knew! When it came to the election Labour kept quiet about how left wing its leadership was.value is everythingOf course Trump’s cotrite speech was for the benefit of any future enquiry / trial, Paul. He didn’t actually believe the things he was saying. However, the more he speaks out like that the more of his far right supporters just might think he means it and therefore change their actions. I know it’s unlikely but some might take notice.
value is everythingAlternatively it could enrage some of the hard core ones even more, if that’s possible, and add to their feeling of betrayal by politicians and the establishment.
The next few days are going to be very interesting.
You may be right about the hardened – worst of the lot – being enraged by Trump appearing more compiant, Paul. However – as you imply – don’t think there’s much hope for them.
Suspect although all had the same feeling of “we was robbed”, not all had the same goal. Not all the rioters had killing and kidnap on their minds. We only saw those at the front of the crowd too. There were also varying degrees of violence and vandalism. Suspect these groups of extremists made use of the larger crowd’s anger.
Dividing the crowd’s motives could split the groups up, making them easier to control if not cure.
value is everythingHow do you know that then? Did you speak to them all? Clearly this information was out there for everyone to see and it’s not like the propaganda sheets (The Scum, The Heil, The Torygraph and the Brexpress) left much doubt is it? Even The Guardian isn’t much of a Corbyn fan. Voters, we are told, are not as stupid as a lot of people think.
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