- This topic has 84 replies, 31 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I love the polytrack surface but I’m saddened ro read not many are turning up at Kempton as it could put an end to AW racing there, something I hope never happens, I wish we had the polytrack somewhere in Scotland, I really couldn’t do without AW racing in the winter months as the NH game doesn’t do it for me, I’m also not one for backing short favs so I personally don’t care if favs are not winning.
I wish they’d stop these twilights meetings though, what kind of time is that to start a meeting? there lies the problem.
The slagging off of the AW cards is getting all a bit boring, change the record lads! :(
long live the polytrack and the all weather racing!
With "crowds" of only 100 (one hundred), it’s clear that it will have to come to an end soon, possibly by the end of next year.
Surely the incompetent Julian Thick will have to go very soon. It’s staggering to someone like myself who’s been following the sport for over 40 years to see all this money spent on "improvements", and virtually no one turns up.
I like AW racing, I can’t bet at 5% a runner though. Any not in the know punter is going to get fleeced, in the long run.
A completely different point, imo.
- Total Posts 17716
I have no problem with AW racing; a former regular at Southwell and still approx 20% of my winter bets are  on races on these surfaces, so I have no axe to grind in that respect.<br> None of the above means I have to like what I believe is happening to racing because of its expansion, nor support its further growth which the ‘triumvarate’ is hell-bent on forcing through.<br> Anyone who cares about the sport, or indeed just bets on it with any serious intention, should surely be concerned about what is happening at Kempton Park and its long-term ramifications for the sport as a whole?<br>Despite what some have implied, there is a wholesale dilution of the quality of racing at this course; sure, it had some poor flat cards, but never anywhere near the preponderance of class 5,6,& 7 racing that is now the case, and from being maybe  a low grade2 flat course it is now, to all intents and purposes, a poor grade5.<br> Add to that much of its programme is for racing at hours inconvenient to everyone except the off-course bookmakers, it attracts less custom than a decent pub, not enough course-bookmakers attend to form a credible market, sp margins are way above acceptable norms, and the incidence of winning favourites is now shown to be 2/3rds of the  national average.<br>All bad enough in isolation, but the really worrying thing, much more important than all that has gone before, is that this is the future, planned, laid out, and openly promoted by a cartel that have eyes for nothing but  the £££ signs, and blithely accepted and supported by a large percentage of the supposedly knowledgeable and worldy-wise members of this forum.<br>For God’s sake open your eyes! :o
You  can choose to bet on Flat Turf crap, good turf stuff, Jumps crap, good jumps stuff, AW crap, good AW stuff
you can choose to go to races  or choose to watch  on tv
you can choose not to bet into high % books if you wish, even  choose to do this on or off course
<br>if being able to choose, is the future, then i’m all for it
<br>And thats enough ranting from me on this thread
like Jim states, AW knocking is getting boring
(Edited by empty wallet at 4:33 am on Nov. 26, 2006)
<br>Venusian,
Do try to keep up – Julian Thick was moved from Kempton earlier this year and is now running Sandown.
And anyway, he was just the mouthpiece – the decisions about Kempton were taken at the top level within Racecourse Holdings Trust. He was however instrumental in the retention of NH racing, a reversal of the original head office proposal.
Glenn,
Is it possible that the performance of punters at Kempton is improving with experience?
AP
Well, apracing, I’m pleased to hear he got the boot earlier, rather than waiting for me!
But, how on earth did he get a job at Sandown, after what he’s done to Kempton? I don’t really care much for the "I was only following orders" excuse.
TDK,
You miss the point. I can only make money on things that other people are betting on. An unattractive product is no good to me. Have you ever tried to get money on an outsider in one of these twilight zone races – you end up betting against yourself. Besides much of the huge loss is down to the cartel dictating the SPs. When I’ve looked to lay long odds-on favs there recently I’d have to have gone odds against to get matched on BF.
AP,
Anything’s possible. The results could possibly be decided in a smoky room by blood drinking lizards, who have decided they’ve been over-egging the pudding and have been picking out a few short ‘uns recently. With no compelling evidence presented for either that or your theory I won’t be taking either on board at this time.
Yes Glen dont relent you are right on the money , its just another monmore or hall green , in fact when twilight meetings are on its not even as good as a bags greyhound meeting
<br>The Industry and all its cronies who continue to strangle racing in the name of the sacred levy will eventually see the light when the mugs (sorryI mean betting shop punters) stop playing
what then for the great polytrack adventure??
<br>Ricky
TDK<br>Dross is certainly the first word that comes to mind looking at the card for Monday 27th Nov.<br>
Quote: from Seagull on 8:13 pm on Nov. 26, 2006[br]TDK<br>Dross is certainly the first word that comes to mind looking at the card for Monday 27th Nov.<br>
Said i’d done :(
Correct Seagull, but the term "dross" can also be applied to the card From Fokestone, Class 4 and 5 racing, no more than 12 runner fields and most with short price favs
The majority of racing in this country is "dross"
You can either wait until there’s an top class 20 runner  handicap with a 120% book, 6-1 fav, paying 1/4 odds first 4 places or get stuck these 3 "dross" cards on Monday where the majority have no chance of winning
<br>The choice is yours
<br>
(Edited by empty wallet at 11:10 pm on Nov. 26, 2006)
"Competive racing" in BHB/betting operator speak means racing which is designed to relieve betting shop punters of a higher proportion of their stakes.
Twilight racing and it’s eventual successor winter evening racing under lights has been/will be introduced for one purpose only. That is to provide round the clock "betting session" opportunities. The basic concept is that more racing means more betting shop betting and because A/W racing is the most profitable for bookies, more money will be delivered to racing’s coffers.
Whether this economic model works as the BHB hope, be interesting to see. An alternative scenario is that, taking Glen’s stats, your average betting shop punter gets fed up with losing money on this type of racing and turns to other ways of losing money more slowly.
TDK makes the point that if you put the work in (apologies if this is too much of a paraphrase) you can make money. But that is true of all racing and the fact remains that 95% of punters lose in the long term.
The possible problem with twilight/winter evening racing is that it is a turn off to racing fans in that few people go to watch it and a turn off to betting shop punters because relying on newspaper and RP pages put up in betting shops, they are bound to lose money more quickly on this type of racing
richard<br>
The average betting shop punter doesnt bet the sort of amounts that will lead him to closely look at margins. The idea that they will see AW as a losing medium because its a few % points worse than turf doesnt wash with me
Whether in the overall scheme of things evening betting is working well, I am not so sure(although in many ways it could appeal more in the winter months than in the summer). Bookies around my work and home are remarkably empty these days.
I avoid it but there again I am still baffled as to why people are getting so wound up about it. No one has explained to me what actual harm this does…
- Total Posts 17716
Quote: from clivex on 11:50 am on Nov. 27, 2006[br]<br>I avoid it but there again I am still baffled as to why people are getting so wound up about it. No one has explained to me what actual harm this does…
Clivex
It doesn’t need a crystal ball really.<br>The possible scenario a few years down the road;
Racing until 9pm 363 days a year!
Another half a dozen floodlit AW tracks to ensure at least 2 twighlight/evening meetings each day.
Morning meetings introduced at these tracks to generate turnover in the ‘quiet’ periods.
Newbury and Newmarket to follow the Kempton route, instal polytrack surfaces and floodlights, and as a consequence become recognised as the 3rd rate track that Kempton and Lingfield have.
Industry sp’s, as the complete lack of interest currently shown in this sphere leads to even lower attendances and even fewer bookmakers in attendance.
Hundreds more horses in training to take up the slack, every horse even worse than those populating these meetings already – apart from those ballotted out, the only possible source of new blood.
A new breed of owners and trainers arising, no longer interested in the pursuit of excellence, but geared up to own, train, and run horses specifically to land a touch.
Lack of interest by the media leading to cards no longer appearing in the press, and The Derby & Grand National the only televised races each year.
An overall dumbing down of the sport to the degree where lack of interest leads to more and more racetracks becoming building sites.
Punters lose interest as bookmaker’s margins climb, and skill at selecting winners is reduced to a lottery.
<br>Alarmist!!! Can’t happen???
Take another look. Most of it already has – to greyhound racing – with the rest already pencilled in by the unholy trinity that is leading us down this treacherous path.<br> Or you could keep smiling, and think it won’t affect me as I’m not interested in it!:cool:
<br>
‘Live and let live’ is what I say. I love National Hunt racing but I don’t expect everybody else to – the AW gives the punters who prefer the flat a chance to enjoy their betting. What’s wrong with that? I personally find some of the grade 2,3 or 4 AW hcap races quite interesting to bet on. For some punters who specialise on the AW, it can be profitable – have a look at the All Weather Lays and Plays on here – some guys on there really know their stuff ( I am not one of them:(  ) & have picked decent priced winners so it’s no good saying that it’s impossible to make a profit out of AW betting. ÂÂÂ
The anti AW comment I would make is that the majority of racegoers clearly prefer turf racing as a spectacle compared to AW racing. Therefore I think that now that we will soon have 5 AW tracks then that should be enough. I see no reason for 3 AW meetings on one day in the summer or for classic trials to be held on the AW surface or for existing turf fixtures to be switched to any of the AW tracks. <br>I see no need for AW surfaces at Newbury or Newmarket. AW racing has it’s useful place in the UK horse racing industry but it has now fulfilled it’s purpose.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.