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Sadly
Toormore
wont be running in the Middleham Park Sky Blue colours by then,every chance Mr Dettori will ride him in the 2000gns.
One offer from Sheikh Joann has already been turned down.Personally I hope the partnership keep him. Was impressed by him in Ireland- not easy to make the running on that course in that wind. I think he will get more than a mile in time.
Toronado is an extremely high class horse. His abilities get lost in the shuffle of inconsistency.
I’m not convinced that Toronado’s breathing issues are resolved, hence he is all or nothing
Ian i am simply telling you what Lester said.Take it up with him if you don’t believe him.I know I would not argue with Lester on this one.
See LESTER.THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF LESTER PIGGOTTPeople don’t have to argue – they can agree to disagree and bet accordingly.
There are a lot of myths in racing, often stemming from great trainers and jockeys who make statements based on their personal experiences which are not actually backed up by the stats.
It’s by challenging these myths that punters can sometimes get an edge.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"One offer from Sheikh Joann has already been turned down.Personally I hope the partnership keep him. Was impressed by him in Ireland- not easy to make the running on that course in that wind. I think he will get more than a mile in time.
Not downgrading the run but it was a tailwind down the straight course on Sunday. The wind would have been a factor for those leading the first few furlongs in the 12-14f races.
Personally No Nay Never has been the top 2yo thus far for me.
I backed No Nay Never at Royal Ascot and he’s not to be underestimated but it would hard to envisage him as a 2000 Guineas horse given his profile. Rizeena has boosted the Morny form and some group 2 winners have come out of the Norfolk (Saayerr and Green Door winning the Richmond and Flying Childers). On the negative side, Coach House went on to be beaten more than three lengths further by Sudirman next time out and Sudirman has run against both War Command and Toormore giving form lines that, however tenuous they may be, would suggest the latter horse is the one going the right way.
I have backed Toormore at 20/1 for the 2000 Guineas and I wouldn’t swap the bet. I think he’ll get a mile no problem and the way he ran down Outstrip at Goodwood was what attracted me to him, as I was convinced the former horse had poached enough of an advantage to hold on. In his latest race he pulled away from Sudirman in the closing stages, and while that may be due in part to Sudirman no getting home, it suggested that Toormore will be able to get at least a mile next year and it is worth remembering that he was entered in the Racing Post Trophy even if he is not running again this year.
I am more impressed with Toormore than I was with Toronado last season and I think you could argue he should be favourite for the 2000 Guineas now. Kingman could be special but he doesn’t warrant being the price he is based on what he has done and it has to be considered that a powerful John Gosden stable has never won the 2000 Guineas and has had few runners I can remember going there with a live chance. Australia was being mooted as more of a Leger type by some judges after an unlucky debut and a workmanlike maiden win but because he burst the shortest lived bubble in the form of Free Eagle and then got the full O’Brien "Best I have ever set eyes on" treatment, he is now 8/1 for a race he hasn’t looked fast enough for thus far. Great White Eagle sits on the same odds as Toormoor now but hasn’t put up anything like the same form yet, which leaves us with War Command who got back on track but didn’t set the world alight following his failure in the Phoenix behind the somewhat eye-brows raising Timeform rated 121 horse Sudirman and I think his position in the market is very much due to liabilities already taken, rather than his current "true" odds warrant.
There will be a few contenders emerging in the coming weeks but Toormoor looks a horse who will progress and fill out his frame over the winter. Kingman is feared but has to go against his trainer’s modest record and will probably be as short as a midgie’s willy on a cold Scottish night if he wins his next race.
As for Free Eagle, he was a silly price for the Derby given Dermot Weld’s record in the race and it may just be he is not as "Talonted" as first thought
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
No Nay Never has less room for improvement as he’s the size of a four year old anyway, what you might class as matured early. Toormore on the other hand has plenty of room to fill and will come on again with age a bit like the real beast Toronado who has somewhat not been able to fulfil his potential with his breathing problems. Toormore is apparently clear winded.
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
Toronado at peak ability would be a champion miler in nearly any given year. Consistency is an issue, but Toormore still has along way to and develop before that is true of himself in peak ability terms (naturally, given his age).
No Nay Never has less room for improvement as he’s the size of a four year old anyway, what you might class as matured early. Toormore on the other hand has plenty of room to fill and will come on again with age a bit like the real beast Toronado who has somewhat not been able to fulfil his potential with his breathing problems. Toormore is apparently clear winded.
I don’t know No Nay Never’s weight or height Nathan, and I don’t know the average height/weight for a top class 2/3/4 colt either, so I cannot disagree with your point with confidence. Could you elaborate on your comment?
But – I do know I have heard this sort of thing banded about many times about top class 2yo’s and many times its been bullshine!
I was a tad a little overboard with him being the size of a four year old but he is a very well built 2 year old with less scope for improvement unless he does get bigger and stronger in which case he wont fit in the stalls…..
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
I was a tad a little overboard with him being the size of a four year old but he is a very well built 2 year old with less scope for improvement unless he does get bigger and stronger in which case he wont fit in the stalls…..
Is this based on your personal Paddock visuals Nathan, or have connections stated as much? I haven’t heard this before, the last I heard Ward thought the Guineas would be ideal for NNN.
Yeah just based on my own thoughts Peru and heard nothing from connections.
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
Horses coming from an American barn could be the recipients of muscle builders and other supplements.So their size should surprise no one.
There is no record NNN is any larger than the average 2yo colt, let alone has been in receipt of ilegal supplements prior to dominating the European 2yo’s.
Nathan is entitled to his opinion, but its only an opinion.
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