February 6, 2007 at 09:23 #814Pegwell BayMember
- Total Posts 208
Racehorses of 2005 cost Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£70.
Racehorses of 2006 will cost Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£75.
That’s a hefty inflation rate. Why the extra fiver just 12 months on?
I’m sure they would say they held back the price the last year or two, but surely it’s more than a coincidence that it’s gone up over 7% now that Betfair have taken over.
And yes, I am a skinflint. :biggrin:February 6, 2007 at 16:59 #37921ZorroMember
- Total Posts 472
Why are you paying anything?February 6, 2007 at 17:11 #37922barry dennisMember
- Total Posts 398
simple,dont buy it , who cares.February 8, 2007 at 12:47 #37923bigmickieMember
- Total Posts 22
in todays age isnt timeform absolutetly pointless..??February 8, 2007 at 13:18 #37924WallaceParticipant
- Total Posts 862
Timeform has been pointless for years now.February 8, 2007 at 16:30 #37925Pegwell BayMember
- Total Posts 208
Quote: from bigmickie on 12:47 pm on Feb. 8, 2007[br]in todays age isnt timeform absolutetly Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â pointless..??<br>
Why is that? Am I missing something here?February 8, 2007 at 18:32 #37926LetsGetRacingMember
- Total Posts 1147
You’re paying over-the-odds for a variety of different services, all of which offer little or no additional insight into the race/meeting in question. There are countless ratings systems available via the internet these days, the OR, RPR and Topspeed being absolutely free and any number of people offering their view on a race; whether it be on the internet, forums, television or radio. There’s no reason, really, to pay for anything like that.
And even Timeform try to get away with running a tipping service. It costs Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£99 a month to subscribe, you have to spend 5 minutes on the phone every morning listening to the insufferable Jim McGrath and bet to Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£100 stakes to make Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£21k.
But the advertised Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£21k is misleading; this being the return at the best possible odds on all selections, representing a 32% profit on investment. The profit to the starting prices of each winner is a little over Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£8k, actually only a 12% POI (approximately). You’d be just as well to stick the Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£65k you’re betting every year in a high-interest bank account.February 8, 2007 at 21:04 #37927DroneParticipant
- Total Posts 5108
Quote: from LetsGetRacing on 6:32 pm on Feb. 8, 2007[br]<br>And even Timeform try to get away with running a tipping service. It costs Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£99 a month to subscribe, you have to spend 5 minutes on the phone every morning listening to the insufferable Jim McGrath and bet to Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£100 stakes to make Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£21k.
But the advertised Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£21k is misleading; this being the return at the best possible odds on all selections, representing a 32% profit on investment. The profit to the starting prices of each winner is a little over Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£8k, actually only a 12% POI (approximately). You’d be just as well to stick the Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£65k you’re betting every year in a high-interest bank account.
Is this right: 12% profit at SP? If only in my case.
And is that ‘Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£100 stake’ per bet or per point? If the former, then 8K profit at SP would do very nicely indeed thankyou. Without wishing to sound elitist a century is not exactly high roller territory is it nor 65K annual turnover.
From what I can glean you’ve made the cardinal error of equating turnover (65K) to available cash. To generate that amount of turnover over a year would require start up capital of say only 5K (if Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£100 per bet) so your comparison with ‘high interest bank accounts’ is false. That would require start up capital of 65K deposited to cook for a year.
Turnover is king.
I actually believe your quoted figures are too good to be true; in stark contrast to the poor potatoes you erroneously believe them to be.
I do agree with you that advertising profit obtained at best odds is misleading and doesn’t reflect well on those concerned.February 9, 2007 at 07:35 #37928SmithyMember
- Total Posts 720
The reason the likes of RPR and Topspeed are free is because they are markedly inferior to Timeforms.February 9, 2007 at 08:39 #37929ArtemisParticipant
- Total Posts 1736
A look at Relayline’s tables(January 2000 to present) shows the Timeform service in 117th position out of 124 monitored services.
The bare facts:
2,159 selections<br>625 winners<br>A loss of 181.35 pts to advised stakes<br>A profit of 108.43pts to level stakes
A reasonable return on level stakes betting (5%), which would probably take them higher up if the table was decided in this way. Grade C. Should be doing a lot better.February 9, 2007 at 09:43 #37930DroneParticipant
- Total Posts 5108
Thanks Artemis, that paints a more realistic picture, particularly the 5% to levels which is okay. The hefty discrepancy with advised stakes suggests their staking plan is of the ‘cover to win’ type e.g a sliding scale of say 10 points at Evs to1 point at 10/1. So the longer priced winners count for little.
That way lies madnessFebruary 9, 2007 at 12:01 #37931davidbradyMember
- Total Posts 3901
Well if they can’t make money with their own info, what chance has anybody else got!February 9, 2007 at 12:05 #37932cormack15Keymaster
- Total Posts 8783
The Timeform annual is a unique record and is probably worth double the current price.<br>February 9, 2007 at 12:09 #37933PrufrockParticipant
- Total Posts 2081
As a point of comparison, if you bought the Timeform annual you would get Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£25 in change from the cost of "The World’s Greatest Racecourses" and about 4 times as many pages.
Timeform’s "Racehorses of 1996" cost Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£67. That’s an increase of less than 12% over 10 years then.February 9, 2007 at 12:57 #37934ArtemisParticipant
- Total Posts 1736
I agree that the Timeform Annuals are both superb and collectable, providing a unique record of a season’s racing. Worth the money? Yes, if you are a racing fan and can afford it.
The ratings and the tips derived from them should not detract too much from the books, but people are bound to ask how useful the ratings are compared to other(cheaper) ratings that are available.
I think we have to thank Timeform for the vital part they have played in developing the present system of handicapping involving the compilation of form and speed ratings. In a way, they have provided sufficient knowledge to others to compete away their past dominance of this niche market.
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