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You need to understand how Timeform work a race out. There’s a lot more to it than ratings.
Traffic Fluide is not 139p, it’s 139P.
A big "P" means "capable ofmuch
better form" than they are able to rate it. You can usually expect at least a 10 lbs better performance, but I can sometimes rate that figure as 15 or 20+ lbs depending on how enthusiastic they are. Where as had it been only a small "p" it’s only "likely to improve", so not thought likely to improve anywhere near as much as a big "P".
Yeh right Ginge! Timeform offer nothing more than we can offer ourselves,if we interpret the way they assess things in Human terms you would have a Big ‘B’ next to your name…..For ‘Bullsh*t’!!
You’d def have a squiggle TAPK, maybe even a double!!
Never David! Me? I’m as genuine as they come.
‘Armchair Jockey’ was an Errant Rogue 
You’re the Ubedizzy of TRF
You mean the beast of a sprinter from the 70’s I hope!
Had a reputation with the fillies before, after and during a race.
Not the ‘Ubedizzy’ thats come last on his only 3 runs!!LolCan someone explain this conundrum then.
My original post showed Land of Vic reated 1 lb in front on Timeform ratings.
From the Sporting Life
"To celebrate our new Timeform Shortlist service, their jumps editor Dan Barber previews Sprinter Sacre’s return at Ascot.
Ascot also features some familiar faces in the Grade Two OLBG Mares’ Hurdle.
Carole’s Spirit is Timeform top-rated.Gee they have it every way. Why not just pick every horse.
May be Barber got it wrong.
May be Sporting Life quoted him wrong.
Mistakes happen.
Just as you NI got the "P" wrong.
Not that it matters anyway because Caroles Spirit is not his or Timeform’s tip.
Dan Barber was giving his opinion of the race as an individual, as we all are individuals, he tippedDark Spirit
in the race because he believes it is value at the prices. Another Timeform person might think Land Of Vic is the value or anything else in the race. What is "top rated" did not matter in the context of the piece. He was saying there are reasons to oppose Caroles Spirit at the price.
Ratings are only a small part of Timeform these days. Being "top rated" does not make it the Timeform tip.
Value Is EverythingNever understood the large amount of antipathy towards Timeform that exists on this forum. Its rarely constructive, on the contrary it usually smacks of sour grapes.
Like most commercial ratings providers over the last few years, Timeform have produced a more condensed version of their product that appeals more to the leisure punter. They have different people providing analysis of the same race for different commercial partners (so what?) but as I understand it, the
definitive
Timeform verdict of a race is carried only in the "Race Passes" product.
Anyone punting a master rating top rated (adjusted or unadjusted) without considering all the factors that will lead to that horse reproducing or improving on that master rating will certainly get all they deserve in betting returns. I doubt Timeform have ever sold it differently.
I trialled the Race Passes service for the backend of last flat season and was generally very impressed with it. The Flat annual drips with quality.
Personally I’ve found the Timeform people I’ve read or interacted with over the years extremely passionate about horse racing.
Long may they prosper.
Now I am not a lover of Timeform as I find their ratings are not comparable to their analysis
Tomorrow at Ascot courtesy of the Sporting Life you can find their top 3 for evrey race and the analysis.
Well I wonder if someone can explainthe folowing to me.
150 Land of Vic 166
Caroles Spirit 165
dark Spirt 158.
Yet in their analysis they Bitofapuzzle is fancied to beat Carole’s Spirit.
Well that cannot be any closer thatn 8lb in the ratings yet is their pick
Double standards?Bitofapuzzle is improving and will beat Carole’s Spirit.
Carole’s Spirit has never been within 20 seconds of RP Standard ( apart from Haydock on 21/12/2013 – where there was drolling or a wrong racing distance ! ) I would put Carole’s Spirit slowest of the 3 on recent times.This analysis is based on time – Carole’s Spirit is the class runner tho’.
When you have the BEST "Racing Tipster" BI system working for you – always a WINNER !
Too many postings here in excess of a sentence or two and I have a limited attention span and bore easily.
I will just comment that Timeform, like the Official Handicapper, generate a rating that stands regardless of going, distance and any of the other factors that can affect a horse’s performance – hope that helps!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Too many postings here in excess of a sentence or two and I have a limited attention span and am easily bored.
I will just comment that Timeform, like the Official Handicapper, generate a rating that stands regardless of going, distance and any of the other factors that can affect a horse’s performance – hope that helps!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Too many postings here in excess of a sentence or two and I have a limited attention span and bore easily.
I will just comment that Timeform, like the Official Handicapper, generate a rating that stands regardless of going, distance and any of the other factors that can affect a horse’s performance – hope that helps!
You’re describing the Timeform Master Rating Ian. Master Rating is the form rating a horse is capable of given its optimum conditions.
Timeform also give performance ratings achieved for every run of every horse in every race. So it is relatively easy for subscribers to see what rating the horse ran to before given any particular
"going, distance and any of the other factors that can affect a horse’s performance"
if (of course) it has run in the conditions before. It also gives a write up of factors which may affect the result.
Value Is EverythingHere we go again
"Analyst’s Verdict:
Pain Au Chocolat‘s
Plumpton form received a boost when the
runner-up hacked up at Wetherby next
time and he could take a bit of stopping
in receipt of 4 lb from fellow previous
winners The Saint James and Newbury
winner Old Guard, though strong market
support for the former on his debut for new
connections would put a slightly different
slant on things.Yet we rate The Saint James 4 pounds higher.Should we be weathermen. No matter what we say somewhere along the way we will be right.
I didn’t think much of the Timeform blurb for Open Eagle today. It read as follows:-
"OPEN EAGLE landed a trio of competitive handicaps on the Flat last year and will be hard to beat if jumping proficiently on debut in this sphere. Indeed, the fact that he holds entries in all the top novice hurdles at next month’s Cheltenham Festival suggest that his new connections have high hopes for him. Oscar Knight and Total Recall are both promising types and can fill the places."
The problem I have is the fact that they have overlooked that, during the week, the stable had said he won’t be running at Cheltenham, win, lose or draw. The horse has had his debut continually pushed back and from early reports that "he looked a natural" the vibes had become less positive.
The race ultimately chosen for his debut was a very lowly grade, hardly inspiring confidence and you have to say that 2 and a half miles for a flat recruit’s first race over sticks looked a strange choice of distance.
The horse briefly looked like he might come with a run today but his effort petered out pretty quickly. It didn’t look to me that he got home over the trip and even if he had, the form was a million miles away from Cheltenham level.
I felt that the Timeform piece was a very rose-tinted look at what has hardly been a copybook preparation for a horse bought relatively expensively and who connections would have been looking for to compete at this year’s Cheltenham Festival. The fact that he was making his debut in February was surely a negative worth mentioning in a preview?
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Maybe SC – but it is easy after the event.
The fact that he had those entries, whether he was going there or not, DID suggest that they had high hopes for him.
Timeform would be the first to admit that they can;’t be right all the time, in fact they’d admit they are wrong a great deal of the time, like us all. Being wrong when it comes to racehorses is inevitable. It’s being right often enough to beat the book that counts.
If you are going to nitpick every comment like above you’ll have a field day. Just do it before not after.
Maybe SC – but it is easy after the event.
The fact that he had those entries, whether he was going there or not, DID suggest that they had high hopes for him.
Timeform would be the first to admit that they can;’t be right all the time, in fact they’d admit they are wrong a great deal of the time, like us all. Being wrong when it comes to racehorses is inevitable. It’s being right often enough to beat the book that counts.
If you are going to nitpick every comment like above you’ll have a field day. Just do it before not after.
I mentioned that Open Eagle wasn’t going to Cheltenham several days before today’s race, on The Supreme Novices thread in the Cheltenham section of the site. My aim there was to alert people that he wouldn’t be taking part in a race that bookies were still quoting him for.
It is all very well quoting a horse being entered up in races but it has to be put into perspective, and in this case we had a horse who was making a belated debut, in a very low level race and had already been ruled out of Cheltenham by connections. Those factors hardly leave the fact that he was once entered up in the Cheltenham races as having any relevance in circumstances that suggest the horse hasn’t come to hand in time for the original plan and hasn’t shown enough to start him at a better level than today’s race.
Give me a break, I have made a comment about
one
preview that I felt was poor, given the public information I had referenced earlier in the week, and yet you are on my back accusing me of after-timing.
Yes it’s all about making profit overall, but I don’t think anyone should be immune from criticism, particularly when it is aimed in the spirit of providing customers with an improved service. God forbid that, any organisation might be of a mind to get their job done better
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
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