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Anyway lets see how many races Tartan Bearer runs over 1m4f this season and how many he wins. My money is on a big fat zero.
I agree with you there, at least in Group 1s.
What a load of B******s, Tartan "Virtually" wins the Derby and you pair think he wont run over a 11/2m again! Without me mentioning the King
George, who do you think is going to run in the Arc when Conduit goes back to the Breeders Cup! In my humblest of opinions anyone who thinks
11/4m i his ideal trip is clueless, he needs 11/2m, watch the Sandown race again its blatantly obvious he was only just getting into top gear when the race was over!Alright, calm down, Mr Tourettes. I don’t care if he did ‘virtually’ win a Derby. Sir Percy won the bloody thing and never went over 1 1/2m again. Hawk Wing was 2nd to arguably the best Derby winner this decade and never went over 1 1/2m again.
I wasn’t agreeing with Fist in that he wouldn’t run over 12f again this season – I was agreeing that he wouldn’t win a 12f Group 1 this season.
And in my humblest opinion (well, it’s fact more than anything else actually), he’s run 3 times over 10f and won 3 times. Yes, he’s finishing strongly at the end in the Gordon Richards but you want that in strongly run races. He’ll be able to come off a strong pace in the Prince of Wales, Eclipse, etc.
After viewing this again for the umpteenth time the race still does not change my opinion, Frozen Fire pretty much avoids all the chaos that happens and makes a overtaking manouver that makes you think he is hampered as badly as 3rd place, a joke of a race and a joke that people use it to say he can’t get 1m4f.
No intereference and Tartan Bearer would have probably won that race, if Frozen Fire had joined him he’d have probably kept his head out in front.
We will have to agree to disagree because the race is diabolical and
a complete show of team tactics.
2 out, Frozen Fire is right next to Casual Conquest who is directly behind Tartan Bearer, so he’s effectively 4-wide while Tartan Bearer is 3-wide.
He then switches to the outside and ends up being 6-wide while Tartan Bearer is still 3-wide.
1 out, Tartan Bearer’s now 6-wide as well with Frozen Fire directly behind him.
1/2f out now and Tartan Bearer is about 11-wide with Frozen Fire 12-wide.
So look at their positions 2-out compared to their position 1/2f out.
Tartan Bearer’s gone from 3-wide to 11-wide and Frozen Fire from 4-wide to 12-wide. Yes or no?
I won’t comment on the bit in bold as it’s just laughable.
Ballydoyle never do team tactics? Think you need to watch closely what Murtagh did.
He should have been banned for what he did and anywhere else he would have. In France I bet every Ballydoyle horse would have been thrown out.
Then IMO you must have been watching from the Grassy Knowle.
You seem familiar Zarkava to me, you are Mr Trends on 606 right?
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Anyway lets see how many races Tartan Bearer runs over 1m4f this season and how many he wins. My money is on a big fat zero.
I agree with you there, at least in Group 1s.
What a load of B******s, Tartan "Virtually" wins the Derby and you pair think he wont run over a 11/2m again! Without me mentioning the King
George, who do you think is going to run in the Arc when Conduit goes back to the Breeders Cup! In my humblest of opinions anyone who thinks
11/4m i his ideal trip is clueless, he needs 11/2m, watch the Sandown race again its blatantly obvious he was only just getting into top gear when the race was over!So it’s bullshit and clueless is it?
Well first of you should learn to race read and if you think you know better than SMS the gawd help you.
Obviously when he ran at Sandown and showed the world he needs 1m4f SMS wasn’t there as he intends runnning him over 1m2f again.
What actually happened at Sandown was Tartan Bearer having his first run in 10 months was caught out along with everything else in the race by a sudden injection of pace by Pipedreamer who shot clear at the 2 furlong marker.
Despite Pipedreamer tiring in the lst 100 yds TB had sufficient toe to catch him and in the meantime put 2 to 3 lengths between himself and the third horse.
There are not many horses would give Pipedreamer a start like that and catch him. I doubt if a horse that truly needs 1m4f to be at his best would have.
Being his first run and along season ahead there is no way either trainer would have their horse 100% and for me it was an excellent run from both.
As far as it being a pointer to TB needing further then I doubt you’ll get many agreeing with that.
It was bad enough when you said Tartan Bearer would win the King George but to say he will go for the Arc. .
The furthest thing from SMS’s mind IMO will be keeping the horse in training until October finding out the ground is against him, making it even less likely he will get the trip and taking on horses like this years Derby winner etc.
He’ll be in some field swatting flies come October.
As far as Conduit is concerned don’t think for one minute anything is certain when it comes to him. He’s made it perfectly clear he’s in no rush to make that decison. If it looks a poor Arc I’d bet he will go to France and if it look a hot race he’ll go for the Breeders. He’s at least got a chance of winning an Arc whereas Tartan Beaerer wouldn’t be in the first 10 in the betting.
This isn’t good debating, can everyone deflate their ego’s please.
Nobody know if Tartan Bearer is better over 10f or 12f yet, one thing is for certain the owners having two over the same distance is definately a factor in Tartan Bearer being aimed at 10f races.
I also can’t possibly have Frozen Fire as being equally hampered in the Irish Derby as Tartan Bearer, seems a crazy notion to me, i thought it was pretty much accepted as common knowledge that Frozen Fire very much got the run of the race that day.
Today’s the first time I’ve actually seen the race properly, as I watched it on a screen at Uttoxeter on the day of the race; it looked to me that Frozen Fire, unable to get a run up the inside, barged Winchester out of the way to get to the outside. I agree that he was made to race further and further towards the centre of the track, but he didn’t lose any momentum because of it. A very strange race probably due to the fact that two very quirky horses were running in it, and I don’t think I’ve ever watched a race surrounded by more astounded people.
Sir Michael Stoute says Tartan Bearer would be now entered in 12f races, but the KG&QE entries haven’t been announced.
Why TAPK would wager Tartan Bearer is that his full brother Golan ran and won the race in 2004, and Im pretty sure they run in the same way and think Tartan Bearer got the distance better than his brother prior to boh races, Golan ran a credible Derby but failed to handle the track, was outclassed in The Irish, and found another in Sakhee who was just a better horse in The Arc.
I always have been of the opinion that Tartan Bearer is better than Golan though.
Final decs:
3:05) 115C Tattersalls Gold Cup (Group 1) €173,250.00 ( 1m 2f 110y – 4yo+ )
1 3 Casual Conquest(117) (DKWeld) PJSmullen(T) 9,00
2 4 Famous Name (GB)(120) (DKWeld) MJKinane 9,00
3 1 Moiqen(108) (KPrendergast) DPMcDonogh 9,00
4 2 Thewayyouare (USA)(115) (APO’Brien) JPMurtagh 9,00
5 5 Lush Lashes (GB)(119) (JSBolger) KJManning 8,115 runners for a group 1 worth €173,250 for the winner? What are all the English trainers at? I know the ground is going to be bottomless but surely there’s a few decent mudlarks out there who could have been pitched into this sort of company.
Casual Conquest looks like the first choice of the Weld duo on jockey bookings.
Steve Mellish on RUK was of the opinion that Casual Conquest looked a bit iffy at Newmarket- what do others think? I can’t decide if he’s right or if he was perhaps feeling the ground- I’m inclined to think the latter.
Its will hopefully no worse than soft on Sunday afternoon so that brings in Lush Lashes but she is passed over quite easily as 4yr old fillys on non suitable ground against the colts…if she wins fair play but as a betting proposition its not one for me.
I think this is made for thewayyouare…..Casual Conquest had excuses last time but i am making a few too many excuses for him at this stage and Famous Name form doesnt look particulary strong either after Curtain Call didnt beat the Ambulance home last weekend at Longchamp.
Thewayyouare for me
I would forgive Curtain Call’s run, dunno what Luca Cumani was thinking off riding him over a 1m1f, he needs longer and should have been aimed for this instead.
Hard to split the Weld duo. One is proven to thrive in the going, but Casual Conquest’s pedigree says he should appreciate Soft/Heavy just as well.
I guess it’s possible to let the Jockey Club Stakes defeat slide – tiny field size and fast going in first start for 10 months is asking plenty.
Watching Casual Conquest closely at Newmarket on 2000 Guinneas day, he hits the ground very hard and I think if the ground is soft/heavy then it will favour a horse that clips off the turf so CC is an unlikely winner for me
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