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Ignore him Birdsnest. I havent read a word after his first post.
Neither have I. Just leave him to his own little world.
Surely people have worked it out by now? It’s not rocket science. Frankel makes other horses run badly. He takes them out of their comfort zones earlier that they are used to. It has happened throughout his career. This is not aftertiming – I predicted it before the race and actually did an s/f with the other 2.
Had Frankel not been running yesterday CC would more than likely have run to his previous mark. RH was at pains to say before the race that he had never had him better. They were shellshocked after. They have no excuses. He was, like many before him, destroyed.
Frankel is always likely to be UNDER rated because horses can’t run to their best against him.
Next time a Brit runs in the 1,500 watch how they well they run in a European race and then compare it to when they run against the Africans. Same sort of thing. As I said, not rocket science – just the way it is.
Horses like this come along very rarely. Let’s enjoy him hey?!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Surely people have worked it out by now? It’s not rocket science. Frankel makes other horses run badly. He takes them out of their comfort zones earlier that they are used to. It has happened throughout his career. This is not aftertiming – I predicted it before the race and actually did an s/f with the other 2.
Had Frankel not been running yesterday CC would more than likely have run to his previous mark. RH was at pains to say before the race that he had never had him better. They were shellshocked after. They have no excuses. He was, like many before him, destroyed.
Frankel is always likely to be UNDER rated because horses can’t run to their best against him.
Next time a Brit runs in the 1,500 watch how they well they run in a European race and then compare it to when they run against the Africans. Same sort of thing. As I said, not rocket science – just the way it is.
Horses like this come along very rarely. Let’s enjoy him hey?!
That is exactly right. Canford Cliffs has run an absolute belter to finish second as he actually tried to beat Frankel. The only way horses can get close to Frankel is if he uses his incredible speed early in the race then tires / idles (whichever) inside the final furlong and they are held up well off his amazing fractions.
It sounds defeatest but when running against Frankel everything is best ignoring him and racing for second. Try and take him on and you’re going to pay the price. I only hope yesterday doesn’t leave too much of a mark on Canford.
How good Frankel actually is we still don’t really know he is very difficult to put a figure on he was given one minor crack yesterday thats all and Queally never really had to get serious.
Should be noted that Hughes was easier on Canford Cliffs in the concluding stages (easing him down) than Queally was on Frankel (pushing him out). Hughes also only used the whip lightly to straighten CC up (Frankel was also struck once).
Hannon and others’ view that CC may not have run to form is justified. Even after winning last year’s Sussex they made it a point to mention that the horse didn’t seem to appreciate the course (certainly it looked like he could have beaten Rip by further, but Hughes left it very late).
But it’s also very possible he didn’t run to form because he’s never pressed that sort of pace, all will be clearer after sectional timing.
How good Frankel actually is we still don’t really know he is very difficult to put a figure on he was given one minor crack yesterday thats all and Queally never really had to get serious.
Frankel was running on empty at the end of the Guineas and Ascot race, was he not? Let’s not make it sound like he’s never been under pressure, even if he didn’t run to his optimal figure in those races because of tactics. I don’t think we can say he had any huge amount in reserve Wednesday.
But he looks unbeatable over a mile, especially since he can lead/sit handy.
Morning folks.
Blimey there are some sour grapes here, Richard Hannon blaming the course correct me if i’m wrong but did Canford not win this last year if you have to blame the course don’t run them then yes it could have been a slightly off day not denying that one bit, let’s see what transpires assuming there will be a 2nd round between them but at the moment it’s Frankel 1, Canford 0 and for me the weight for age yesterday made no difference whatsoever Canford had the same last year, if Frankel was all out and won a length then yep Canford is the winner on merit but yesterday he was not, i would love to see a rematch because we have two darn good horses here you don’t win all these Group One’s like they have sat in the stable so it’s a testament to both that they have achieved so much already in there respective careers, Frankel has yet to taste defeat yet i’m sure that will happen at somepoint but for now le’s hail SIR FRANKEL.
Cheers.
Adrian
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How good Frankel actually is we still don’t really know he is very difficult to put a figure on he was given one minor crack yesterday thats all and Queally never really had to get serious.
Frankel was running on empty at the end of the Guineas and Ascot race, was he not? Let’s not make it sound like he’s never been under pressure, even if he didn’t run to his optimal figure in those races because of tactics. I don’t think we can say he had 3 or 4 lengths or something that significant in reserve Wednesday.
Who you disagreeing with? I never said anything different.
- Total Posts 17716
Dress it up how you like – Canford Cliffs did not run to his best yesterday. His trainer might have been at been at pains to point he had the horse well, but why ignore both trainer and jockey’s pre-race concerns about he course.
He beat a half-cooked RVW (AOB’s view – before and after the race) in the Sussex last year, but with some fairly modest horses in close proximity, and it’s a matter of record that Hughesie also blamed his Guinea’s defeat on becoming unbalanced on meeting the dip, so it’s no new phenomenon that the course wouldn’t be ideal.
Not that he would have beaten Frankel anyway, but on a stiffer and flatter track, he would almost certainly have been a couple of lengths or so closer, imo.Brigadier Gerard was mentioned by Himself, but of course his feat of doing the QE2 and Champion Stakes double at three and four can never be repeated thanks to the rescheduling of those races on the same day.
Having had the good fortune to be present at Goodwood yesterday, I’m depressed by the pointless argument about ratings and what he beat offered elsewhere on TRF. (When Usain Bolt did the Olympic 100M/200M double, did anybody start by asking what he’d beaten, or claiming Asafa Powell was below his best?).
But on the theme of this thread, whenever and wherever Frankle runs next, make the effort to go and watch. You won’t be disappointed.
AP
It matters not a jot where or when they meet again – Frankel IS the superior racehorse. People tended to concentrate on the turn of foot Canford Cliffs has, forgetting that Frankel has a brilliant change of gears too – just as Canford Cliff’s jockey was quick to emphasise prior to the Goodwood clash,
Richard Hughes’s post race interview was very telling.
He said that although he didn’t think that Canford Cliffs ran to his best, he nevertheless conceded that Frankel was brilliant and that even if his horse had turned up "one hundred and ten" (sic) it is unlikely that he would have beaten "yer man."
Although Richard Hannon snr & jnr may be in denial, Richard Hughes now accepts that Frankel is indeed the daddy !
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Dress it up how you like – Canford Cliffs did not run to his best yesterday. His trainer might have been at been at pains to point he had the horse well, but why ignore both trainer and jockey’s pre-race concerns about he course.
He beat a half-cooked RVW (AOB’s view – before and after the race) in the Sussex last year, but with some fairly modest horses in close proximity, and it’s a matter of record that Hughesie also blamed his Guinea’s defeat on becoming unbalanced on meeting the dip, so it’s no new phenomenon that the course wouldn’t be ideal.
Not that he would have beaten Frankel anyway, but on a stiffer and flatter track, he would almost certainly have been a couple of lengths or so closer, imo.As others have alluded to Canford Cliffs did not appear to produce his best because he tried to press the pace. Look what happened to Dubawi Gold when tried to keep tabs on Frankel in the St. James Palace, he was wrecked 2F out and utterly destroyed.
In my opinion Canford Cliffs ran a very credible race considering he raced so close to the pace, maybe could have been a length closer but for veering left. The reason Rio got closer to Canford was a combination of Canford veering left and because he was unable to produce his normal turn of foot in the final furlong after chasing the unrelenting gallop in the last 4/5 furlongs.
As for Hannon’s comments, why on earth did he take on what he knows is a truly exception colt over a course he thinks doesn’t suit his animal baffling. I’ll tell you why his horse (the best he’s ever trained, his son said in an interview, its the one he waited all his life to train) is a G1 C/D winner, they said themselves the horse in tip top shape, they expected to win or at the very least give Frankel a real hard fight, they were shellshocked by the sheer brilliance of Frankel.
Canford gave his best make no mistake but this is what Frankel does to horses. He is re-defining the standards by which we measure our champions.
Goldikova is an absolutely terrific filly, up there close to Zarkava, Zenyatta, Bosra Sham, Allez France Etc.
Alas, as good as she is, Frankel is a monster. She would not stand any chance whatsoever over 1 mile on good ground, anywhere anytime. Believe me this colt is on another plain to other G1 horses.
A horse that the jockey said was so full of enthusiasm that he was difficult to pull up is now being given a rest. Those down under must be laughiung in their cups.I hope that SYT is not afraid to take him on. What spin will be put on the Coolmore people taking on the Galileo of all Galileos?
The Official Handicapper sees Frankel on 134/135 for today’s race
http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/glorious-goodwood-goodwood-frankel-rated-just-1lb-inferior-to-sea-the-stars/891015/top/
no doubt, judged on his 7.5l defeat of the 120 rated Rio De La Plata (officially 2lbs per length @ 1m), and eminently more sensible than any 140+ rating, imo. At his age, he could well have more improvement in him, but he needs to, to bear comparison with such as Brigadier Gerard.I just wish more people would interpret form properly reet. How well he beat Rio
has
to bear an influence on the merits of the performance.
You can’t simply blow off the figures and rely on rhetoric. 135 is a fair rating, I have no problems with that. It was a great performance by Frankel, pleasing to the eye, if he does that to SYT, Planteur, SNA and Midday then I couldn’t really argue with a 140+ rating. That assumes they turn up at York.- Total Posts 17716
I’m quite pleased they don’t, RD.
Let the blowhards have their day, they’ll be wrong far more often than they’re right.another devoted forum reader if not poster got to leave after reading this thread ….
weve now got to put up with the normal drivel from Yanks who lets face it have just about got the best of everything and cant take anyone else thinking they have …..how can you take comments seriously about how good their sports are when they call their teams world champions in sports that no -one else plays ……
thank you for a good couple of years reading …bye bye
I’m not sure why you would leave the forum just because someone has an opposing opinion? If you want to hear people agree with the hype all the time, that’s all well and good. But i’m calling it as I see it, not how others
chose
to see it.
The art of debate is to agree to disagree. I never saw a debate where everyone agreed with each other. That isn’t a debate, it’s a self appreciation society.- Total Posts 17716
Someone here said the Yanks proclaim World Championships without the world participating. He may have a point but what about the Breeders Cup? Also, just what are YOU all doing now? Claiming the worlds best for a horse who took 8lbs and was given an easy lead in a 4 horse hilly grass mile race? THIS is NOT the world. In fact CC was not even at his best off the Goldikova race. Frankel needs to be hooked and tested and needs more than a mile to be called great in this country. Will he come to the BC? NOPE, he will DUCK as Sea the Stars did. So call me a troll and take your ball and run home if you must (some are leaving because of me lol). My goodness, I thought lots more of the Brit fighting spirit. What has happened to good lively debate? What was the title of this post? I was merely answering with my opinion. Instead of running or ignoring why don’t you bring it if you think you can step? I have NEVER backed away from a good debate. Unless you all want to live in your own private fantasy land.
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