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Re: the ‘flying at the finish’ remarks, look at Camelot in relation to Michelangelo at the half-furlong mark and at the finish. The distance between them looks about the same at both points to me.
The winner was just tying up in my view.
Mike
Spot on,
The winner was slowing and Camelot was one paced.
Watching the race in the Chester press room the near universal comment during the race was, "what on earth is he doing on the inside" – or words to that effect …. it was slightly more Anglo Saxon than that.
Watching the replay from the inside angle O’Brien had to snatch up and probably lost close to a length ….. would he still have won had that not happened who knows but it would have been closer.
The bottom line is jockeyship played an decisive role in the result, it wasn’t the best tactical ride from O’Brien and Barzalona rode a tactically astute contest.
Would the result be different if the race was re-run, quite likely it would be but the form book, and history, will be written based on what happened today.
I was tempted to make the "boy doing a man’s job" comment but then one has to remember the winning jockey isn’t much more than a boy himself.
Camelot beat his old Derby adversaries convincingly enough.The ride was good enough for that. There would have been plenty of hype about how good Camelot is if Encke hadn`t taken part – I think it would have been seen as highly satisfactory if not spectacular. Encke benefitted from an astute ride but could have been given decent place claims anyway and wasn`t given enough attention. He clearly improved well past his Voltigeur rivals. None of which seems to have been taken into account by Francome on C4 amongst others.
Paul, going by the YouTube and RP video I cannot see where he is ‘snatched up’: steered out sharply at best, I’d say. JOB tries to get him going with vigorous hands and heels and, perhaps, resorts to the stick a bit too quickly. Again, I wouldn’t be surprised if they find the horse was amiss.
Camelot defeated Main Sequence and Thought Worthy by five lengths and eleven lengths respectively at Epsom. Today, the distances were five and a half and thirteen and a half lengths, with the John Gosden-trained colt eased in the final furlong.
It’s important not to place too much emphasis on this, particularly on slightly slower ground, an extra two furlongs and a more conventional track, but everything points to the favourite running his race.
When an odds-on favourite gets defeated in such a contest, why is it necessary to find an excuse? The word ‘find’ is key here – keep digging and you will eventually find something.
When the pace of the race increased and position became pivotal, Camelot is never more then two lengths behind the eventual winner – until Barzalona gets Encke balanced, gives him a crack with the whip and the son of Kingmambo takes off. At this very moment, Joseph goes from cruising on Camelot to under pressure and the response is not as immediate.
Encke boasted superior acceleration over this trip. Camelot wasn’t pulling away from the rest of the field at the finish and I would actually be inclined to believe that, rather than not stay, Camelot’s main attributes were not as effective over this marathon trip.
Joespeh was in the the right place if his colt was good enough – he, quite simply, wasn’t on the day.
Let’s not forget, Barzalona has come in for some criticism this season and demonstrated his inexperience this afternoon, asking Encke for his initial effort when the colt was clearly not ready for it. Both are very young riders and have displayed fantastic ability, but at such a tender age they must be expected to make errors.
I have criticised the St Leger in the past, but it’s a magical sight when a group of promising, staying thoroughbreds are challenging for superiority down the Doncaster straight. There’s something very pure about it.
Stamina is a key attribute for the thoroughbred, but is becoming less relevant in some parts of the world where speed is king. This is having a detrimental influence on the racehorse, in my opinion. The St Leger winner must be durable and tough and, as I mentioned prior to the contest, class is simpy not enough.
Shergar was humbled by this contest and, just two years ago, so were Snow Fairy and the late Rewilding. Today, a dual classic winner was defeated by a colt who narrowly won off a mark of 90 in July – the horse he beat that day, giving 3lb, is currently rated 83.
You gotta love the Leger.
at the 3 furlong pole camelot is right behind the winner as we head to the 2 furlong pole mickael barzalona starts to push joseph o brien sits completley still my honest opinion joseph thought he was going to do a frankel and cruise straight past him but where praise is due encke battled hard to the line and in the cold light of day punters dont get paid legends are not made on the back of what might have beens
If you do your best you are not to blame.The people who insisted on Joseph riding are the culprits because they are not doing their best. They have a responsibility to the horse to get the best rider available and they failed the horse in that regard.Joseph is not to blame.No jockey would turn down such a ride. Most jockeys should not be offered it.
at the 3 furlong pole camelot is right behind the winner as we head to the 2 furlong pole mickael barzalona starts to push joseph o brien sits completley still my honest opinion joseph thought he was going to do a frankel and cruise straight past him but where praise is due encke battled hard to the line and in the cold light of day punters dont get paid legends are not made on the back of what might have beens
He sat still because he thought he could do a Frankel???? Nonsense!!!!
FFs open your eyes he sat still because he couldn’t go forward as Ursa major was directly in front of him.
The more I watch the race the more I put the blame firmly on the horses behavior and inability to quicken.
Joseph did the right thing waiting and it’s not like it was a furlong from home before he found daylight. He eased him out at the first opportunity fully 2 furlongs from home and the horse had all the time in the world to go and win his race.
Aidan O’Brien’s post race interview was probably classifiable as ‘borderine manic’ in psychiatric terms and having his son involved in these situations is clearly too much for him……he sounded like he was defending Joseph’s ride when in fact nobody had asked that question….weird and uncomfortable viewing.
Joseph seems to be one of those jockeys who looks good when things go right but look terrible and in particular look like the culprit when things go wrong…..generally it seems to me that horses settle brilliantly for him but at the other end of the race they don’t run on or quicken for him as he might expect them to and as in this case he hasn’t got the experience to cover what other rivals might do…..he’s in his own little world of self belief in his own horse.
Whatever you say about Camelot ( ring rusty?) in the Leger if they got the chance to ride that race again he would be ridden differently (more prominently off of an average pace) and he would definitely win.
Encke had momentum at a crucial point in the race – when the pace really quickened – Camelot did not.
Key factors in the race were pace, positioning and each jockeys ability (experience) to see how the race would pan out when it became clear there was a slow pace.
Take the winner out of the race and Camelot would be proclaimed a world beater but for me the form of his wins in the guineas and Derby is still highly questionable at Group 1 level.
Also possible is that Encke is an improving horse; in the post race interview his team said they had disregarded the Voltigieur run & that he had been working well at home (though of course his trainer had, had reservations about his participation).
It will be interesting to see hoe he trains on from three to four, there could be some very good races in him.at the 3 furlong pole camelot is right behind the winner as we head to the 2 furlong pole mickael barzalona starts to push joseph o brien sits completley still my honest opinion joseph thought he was going to do a frankel and cruise straight past him but where praise is due encke battled hard to the line and in the cold light of day punters dont get paid legends are not made on the back of what might have beens
He sat still because he thought he could do a Frankel???? Nonsense!!!!
FFs open your eyes he sat still because he couldn’t go forward as Ursa major was directly in front of him.
The more I watch the race the more I put the blame firmly on the horses behavior and inability to quicken.
Joseph did the right thing waiting and it’s not like it was a furlong from home before he found daylight. He eased him out at the first opportunity fully 2 furlongs from home and the horse had all the time in the world to go and win his race.
if you watch the race at the 2 furlong poll he is not trapped in he is right behind the winner as you know 10 different people could watch this race and we would have different views that is the beauty of the sport imo i will stick to my opion
Whilst it was wasnt the best race for joseph, I feel the Irish Derby has taken too much out of Camelot. Give him a rest until next season, let him strengthen even more then he can improve. A return to 1 mile and a half would suit as well.
I’m not sure he would have won as although he got the trip fine and was closing he didn’t seem to quicken up as you’d have expected he would. However I don’t think the jockey did him any favours either as unexpectedly they didn’t go a fast pace at all and he should have ridden him closer to it as opposed to moving around looking for a gap. He looked to me like he thought he was Lester riding Nijinsky and sadly on the day he simply wasn’t.
I actually thought Joseph gave Camelot a decent ride. I was concerned that he was leaving him too much to do coming into the straight but he was in the right position at the 2 furlong pole and his form held up against those he had beaten before.
Maybe the focus should be more on how Encke improved so dramatically. He seemed to put the turbo-chargers on just as Camelot was making his challenge.
Even so, he was tying up and Camelot was gaining on him at the end.I was willing Joseph to take Camelot to the outside and not get so boxed in. But I suppose this would have used up a lot of energy and part of the plan was to keep some in reserve so the horse could see out the extra distance.
Joseph is capable of riding shockers (most jockeys are) – almost every time he gets on board St Nicholas Abbey, for example – but I think it’s a bit too harsh to heap all the blame on his young shoulders.
Maybe an O’Brien pacemaker would have done the trick like his Dad said. Or maybe you just can’t anticipate the kind of improvement Enchke showed yesterday.
There will always be times when the quality of the jockey comes home to roost.
Don’t think the horse was really comfortable at the trip but think he would have won with a Moore or Dettori aboard.at the 3 furlong pole camelot is right behind the winner as we head to the 2 furlong pole mickael barzalona starts to push joseph o brien sits completley still my honest opinion joseph thought he was going to do a frankel and cruise straight past him but where praise is due encke battled hard to the line and in the cold light of day punters dont get paid legends are not made on the back of what might have beens
He sat still because he thought he could do a Frankel???? Nonsense!!!!
FFs open your eyes he sat still because he couldn’t go forward as Ursa major was directly in front of him.
The more I watch the race the more I put the blame firmly on the horses behavior and inability to quicken.
Joseph did the right thing waiting and it’s not like it was a furlong from home before he found daylight. He eased him out at the first opportunity fully 2 furlongs from home and the horse had all the time in the world to go and win his race.
if you watch the race at the 2 furlong poll he is not trapped in he is right behind the winner as you know 10 different people could watch this race and we would have different views that is the beauty of the sport imo i will stick to my opion
What? That’s it ? That’s your opinion? Pray tell if he wasn’t trapped in, as you put it, why on earth did Joseph take a pull and go round behind the winner?
There’s an equation that pretty much proves the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line in Cartesian coordinates. I suggest you look it up
There will always be times when the quality of the jockey comes home to roost.
Don’t think the horse was really comfortable at the trip but think he would have won with a Moore or Dettori aboard.Possibly, but if Frankie had ridden him and got beat in the same manner you can bet people would be saying he had nowhere to go and was unlucky.
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