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I noticed early in the race that his head was really low, in fact I said to my Wife that he was lobbing like a 3 mile chaser.
And she said to me "How many times do I have to tell you I am NOT your wife!!!! Please just untie me. For the love of god PLEEEEASE just untie me!!!!"
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I mentioned that his head carriage was low, though I’m not convinced it was the sign of a relaxed horse, especially when it went from low to high with little/nothing between. His head went up and out, exaggeratedly so, as JOB steered him away from the rail. His tail carriage seemed odd, his leg change turning in looked almost dressage-like and he was changing legs up the straight too. I believe he might have been amiss in some way.
I noticed early in the race that his head was really low, in fact I said to my Wife that he was lobbing like a 3 mile chaser. Due to what the trainer had said before the race I was not surprised to see him like that and assumed it was what they had planned on, to help ensure that he had the best chance possible of staying the trip. It seems hard to believe that there was something amiss with Camelot when he maintained his superiority over his Derby rivals by similar margins. How far would he have had to win by to believe he gave his true running? If he had scrambled home by a head we would probably not be having any of the discussion on this thread. Camelot would be hailed a legend by many and it would be accepted that Encke improved a ton and was a Gold Cup winner in waiting for next year. As Jonibake said "What are we to make of the form?"
I reckon that a page taken from the three year old Colts form book from this year can be held up to the light and will resemble Rab C Nesbitt’s string vest. Hullo Mary Doll
He won the Derby eased up. Whether it’s a selling plater or a Classic winner, a horse either looks to be travelling naturally (not necessarily comfortably) or unnaturally and to my eye the latter was the case with Camelot.
What to make of all that form?!!!
Noble Mission has twice beaten Michelangelo who has beaten Thought Worthy who beat Noble Mission twice but lost to him once and Thought Worthy has twice beaten Tommy Chip but was beaten by him at Ascot when Tommy Chip also beat Noble Mission suggesting he has the beating of Michelangelo except he beat him in the Leger and then you have Main Sequence who has beaten Thought Worthy twice but lost to him once and who finished behind Michelangelo suggesting Noble Mission could beat him especially as he also beat Encke who beat Camelot who beat Thought Worthy, Michelangelo and Tommy Chip who killed the cat that ate the malt that lived in the house that Jack built!!!!
Is it really that difficult Joni?
Michelangelo improved, doing better in the Leger than previously. So Noble Mission had previously beaten a Michelangelo yet to show what he could do.
Voltigeur form is not Worthy.
Being able to kick from the front off a farcical pace Thought Worthy flattered in the Voltigeur. Therefore can be rated on his good third in the King Ed.Thomas Chippendale has been free/pulled in his last two starts (Voltigeur and Leger) so can easily be ignored. Again, can be rated on his King Ed form.
As said, all Voltigeur form can be ignored. Encke improved from winning a Sandown handicap when passing the post with Noble Mission in the Gordon. Then (after the Voltigeur) maintained that improvement at Donny. Noble Mission might have improved a bit from Ascot to Goodwood. Possibly didn’t want to go through a small gap in the King Ed.
If we think of Main Sequence as being better than the result of the Voltigeur (at least compared to the winner Thought Worthy). And either didn’t stay or below form in the Leger… Then his form is fairly easy to believe.
Value Is EverythingWhat to make of all that form?!!!
Noble Mission has twice beaten Michelangelo who has beaten Thought Worthy who beat Noble Mission twice but lost to him once and Thought Worthy has twice beaten Tommy Chip but was beaten by him at Ascot when Tommy Chip also beat Noble Mission suggesting he has the beating of Michelangelo except he beat him in the Leger and then you have Main Sequence who has beaten Thought Worthy twice but lost to him once and who finished behind Michelangelo suggesting Noble Mission could beat him especially as he also beat Encke who beat Camelot who beat Thought Worthy, Michelangelo and Tommy Chip who killed the cat that ate the malt that lived in the house that Jack built!!!!
Is it really that difficult Joni?
Clearly not for you……….but then again you ARE Rain Man.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Clearly not for you……….but then again you ARE Rain Man.
There was a probability of 0.91 you saying that Joni.
Value Is Everything[quote="stesteeplechasing He won the Derby eased up. Whether it’s a selling plater or a Classic winner, a horse either looks to be travelling naturally (not necessarily comfortably) or unnaturally and to my eye the latter was the case with Camelot.
Camelot has been given a rating of 119 for his Leger run, 5 lbs below his Derby win. This was the same rating as his Guineas win. I cannot see how a horse could run ‘unnaturally’ and yet still match a Classic winning rating. I think it is more logical that the longer trip has resulted in a run 5 lbs lower than that in the Derby. Many a time we see/hear of a horse running too badly to be true. I don’t think that was the case here and it was not as if he came into the race with cast-iron proven form, in fact it was a concern to many people. I have never bought into connections suddenly loving the Triple Crown route, The Arc is the mutts nuts and if he were good enough it would have been his target all along.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
I had previously suggested that the O’Brien horses did not run well that weekend (in a different thread) and this week they have done nothing to persuade me otherwise given how a few of them have emptied quickly. Therefore, it is distinctly likely that Camelot ran well below his potential and there would have been no discussion about the ride had the horse had reacted when asked to go as they probably expected.
This thread could be used every day hes riding tbh.
Because I’ve lost count of how many bad rides this kid gives horses.
Of how many times after a furlong or two, he has the horse he’s riding so far back you already know you cant win.
Or even if hes close enough to win, you just know he’ll leave it far too late to press the button.
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