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I think Golden Sword will go to the Leger myself.
Was interesting to see Seamie Heffernan and Aidan O’ Brien have a pop at each other in the media.
Was interesting to see Seamie Heffernan and Aidan O’ Brien have a pop at each other in the media.
Where was this? Tell me more!
I think Golden Sword will go to the Leger myself.
Was interesting to see Seamie Heffernan and Aidan O’ Brien have a pop at each other in the media.
It’d make a cracking thread if only what was supposedly said wasn’t taken out of context. I really can’t believe they’d publicly have a pop at each other….
Red Riot, what have you heard?
Just a piece I read that Heffernan was disappointed with the race tactics they were given and it didn’t help Fame And Glory a day after saying he would have rode him differently, and O’Brien responded by saying he is entitled to his opinion but it was just hard luck.
I guess I shoudn’t have said O’Brien was popping back but Heffernan is certianly not happy with what happened and I guess he is pretty upset they favoured Rip Van Winkle and they used tactics that may have deprived him his first Derby.
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I think your referring to Brian O’Conner’s article in the Irish Independant.
He’s a sweetie wife trying to stir up something that isn’t there. He surmises throughout the article.
This the race was run to suit Rip Van Winkle seems like a load of rubbish to me.
It may have turned out that way but I doubt if it was the masterplan. All the money was for Fame and Glory not Rip Van Winkle and AOB would have been happy no matter which of his horses won.
Heffernan was the one who said Golden Sword ran the race to suit Golden Sword not Rip Van Winkle. Who would argue with that as the horse was beaten 1/2 a length for second. When you consider 4 of the the man’s horses finished in a heap it only goes to prove all of them ran the race to suit themselves not RVW.
He’s certainly not had a pop at AOB in public all he is doing is saying
he
would have ridden the horse differently. Absolutely nothing like "I was given instructions by AOB and they were wrong"
He didn’t walk up to a reporter and say here mate let me tell you this. Most likley knowing reporters he’s been asked " If you had the chance would you ride Fame and Glory differently?" He’s answered and that’s the bit you read in papers.
You then go to AOB and say Heff reckons he might have won if he had ridden thehorse differently and Aiden says "Everyone is entitled to their opinion after Epsom. But the reality is that the only thing that matters is what happens when we all meet at the Curragh.”
two diffferent inteviews at two different times mate but you read one and read into something that isn’t there…makes a good story and keeps the guy in a job…reporters are very good at making something out of nothing and fooling the gullable.
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I was more interested in the "pure galloper" observation but then what does he know?
Now that I am sober
A pure galloper? I think he was looking at Golden Sword
Pure gallopers don’t have a turn of foot the slowy but surely gallop other horses into the ground do they not?Golden Sword looks a real St Leger type in the opinion of many. The Curragh is somewhat stiffer than Epsom and if comes up soft or heavy he could have them all in trouble. A galloper and a stayer only beaten half a length says it all.
If Sea the Stars does turn up I would still run him. Sea the Stars got the trip at Epsom but the pace was average at best who knows what will happen on a different course with a strong gallop.
Sea the Stars looks like he wants to go faster but sometimes it doesn’t work out like you expect it too. No doubt AOB will be all out to male sure he’s tested to the full and Golden Sword is the one to do that.
It would be crazy for Fame and Glory to be left to do the donkey work he’s simply not that type of horse. If some idiot wants to call him a galloper then so be it.
He has a fantastically high cruising speed and kicks of it. As I suspected after the Derrinstown he doesn’t have elecrtifying speed but he still has a decent turn of foot.
What Heff meant when he said he would ride him differently was he would ride him closer to the pace. He is a very easy horse to drop in wherever you want and could have sat up the backside of the two in front instead of out the back door and travelled equally as well there.
If he had done that he would still have been able to kick and Sea the Stars would have been the one chasing him.
I think you will find that is exactly how he will ride him at the Curragh whether Sea the Stars turns up or not.
Incidenatlly I am not totally convince Fame and Glory will get the trip well enough in the St Leger. It’s along long way up that straight there and there’s very often nowhere to hide there. He’s not the type of horse who would want to be in front too long as I think he could idle. Heff certainly gave him a couple of hefty ones when the race was already beyond doubt in the Derrinstown.
Time will tell and before he goes there he’s got to prove he truly gets 1m 4f in a fast run race never mind 1m6f
The question may not be "who will win" as opposed to "which Coolmore horse will prove to be superior?"
I’d like to think Masterofthehorse can progress ahead of Fame And Glory – something about setting the tempo not to suit FaG at Epsom leaves me doubting if he is top of the 3YO pecking order at home.
Aidan O’Brien also hinted at the Derby Festival launch that unexposed, lightly-raced members could join the Derby posse – looking through nominations, he could be referring to Great Wisdom, Dixie Music or Aristocrat.
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I have been throwing this race around in my head all week and hopefully I have it sussed
is The Jury still out on whether there was a master plan to set a pace to suit Rip Van Winkle or not? According to AOB Murtagh and Heff there wasn’t according to some disgruntled punters there was.
Either way I don’t think the pace much matters with Fame and Glory. When Heff said he may have ridden him differently he certainly wasn’t talking about taking off and trying to make all. What he did mean is he would have been closer to the pace in front of Sea the Stars and not behind him.
Fame and Glory biggest asset is he travels really well but he is dependant on one short burst of speed. As he showed at Epsom he can produce that burst of speed of a moderate pace as well as he can of a fast pace.
It’s the others that have to worry about what they can produce after a fast pace not him.
Masterofthehorse produced a better turn of foot coming from further behind at Epsom than Fame and Glory did but the question is could he do so of very strong pace.
Don’t forget when Golden Sword set a much stronger pace at Chester Masterofthehorse couldn’t catch him and that was no fluke.
You have to ask the question will it matter if the going turns out to be good or better?
If the ground is ok and Sea the Stars runs I think you can guarantee a blistering pace. The only hope AOB has is that Sea the Stars doesn’t get the trip on this stiffer coarse if they turn it into a real test of Stamina.
That may suit Golden Sword and Fame and Glory better than it will Masterofthehorse.
If however it turns out the ground is soft or worse and Sea the Stars misses the race, what then?
Golden Sword and Fame and Glory have proved they can handle the ground whereas Masterofthehorse has never ran on it.
That’s pretty unusual for a horse trained in Ireland and chances are AOB has avoided running him in soft ground as he wouldn’t act on it.
The horse that can handle it and has really fast times in it is Fame and Glory if Sea the Stars doesn’t appear.
I just can’t see Masterofthehorse winning the Irish Derby no matter what the going turns out to be.
Of course we are assuming AOB won’t run Rip Van Winkle but he hasn’t said he won’t. If the ground is fast who’s to say he wont run the same horses as he did ar Epsom?
Sea the Stars
Sub: Fame and Glory
Grand Ducal could also be another unexposed runner from AOB.
I would not be surprised if See The Stars misses this race because of the ground.
I very much doubt we will see Rip van Winkle in this race.
I think we will see Fame and Glory, Masterofthehorse, Golden Sword and a few unexposed horses from AOB and I very much hope one of them wins.
He might keep one or two of those for the Grand Prix de Paris on July 14th.
Come on Aidan !!!!!
Fame And Glory
Masterofthehorse
Golden SwordConfirmed runners, think Fame And Glory is a bit far past the other two and I expect him again to beat his stable mates, The Derby probably confirmed I think that Fame And Glory is the better horse to AOB. If they couldn’t beat him at Epsom there going to find it harder at The Curragh.
That said think they will be all be looking at Sea The Stars rear end and could even win by even further, I think he wasn’t given a hard time by Kinane, and he seemed confiedent even with a fast pace he’d still win.
Jukebox Jury gets his run tomorrow at Longchamp to see if he his ready for the task, could be decent place value if he runs well.
I backed Masterofthehorse in the English equivalent and was pleased with my anti post of 33/1 e/w, but like one poster said to turn around the form with Sea the Stars would be a big challenge.
Where can i find the odds on this race, or are not out yet ?
Only Betfair have a market.
Jukebox Jury will certainly not be running after getting stuffed today.
If it’s big enough, Masterofthehorse gets my vote E/W. I think he’ll fare best of AOB’s runners and will never be beaten by Golden Sword again – that’s for sure; a victim of that awful course and a poor ride, no question.
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Fame And Glory
Masterofthehorse
Golden SwordConfirmed runners, think Fame And Glory is a bit far past the other two and I expect him again to beat his stable mates, The Derby probably confirmed I think that Fame And Glory is the better horse to AOB. If they couldn’t beat him at Epsom there going to find it harder at The Curragh.
That said think they will be all be looking at Sea The Stars rear end and could even win by even further, I think he wasn’t given a hard time by Kinane, and he seemed confiedent even with a fast pace he’d still win.
Jukebox Jury gets his run tomorrow at Longchamp to see if he his ready for the task, could be decent place value if he runs well.
Red! such a simple post. If the world was as simple as you make it out to be we wou;d all be millionaires.
Perhaps you are correct but tell you what mate….in 40+ years of racing nothing is ever that simple…….Different pace different tactics different result 90 time sout of a huundred
Think the reasoning behind Fame And Glory at Epsom was pretty simple, he was getting done for speed yet stayed on to hold 2nd.
Surely The Curragh is going to play more to his strengths, and with pacemakers there going to go faster for him, and no Rip Van Winkle this time may prove thats what they were thinking off now.
Think you have said something similar so don’t know why you are brining it up.
Pure gallopers don’t have a turn of foot the slowy but surely gallop other horses into the ground do they not?
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