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So far six horses (someone correct me if I’m wrong) have run that ran in the Epsom Derby have run and only one has won Mahler.
Salford Mill and Strategic Prince ran poorly at Ascot and Lucarno and Kid Mambo both ran well and finished close seconds. Yellowstone ran Ok.
Just wondering what people make of this with regards to the quality of the Derby?
The Derby hasn’t been good for years because too many dreamers run Gp3/Listed class horses and it gives a lopsided view to the race. Look a 2000 and back, all the horses were proven and went on to be useful where as now just dreamers turn up. I doubt we’ll see a Derby with less than 15 runners again.
The thing is, take Authorized away and they were all much of a muchness. The middle-distance group doesn’t seem as strong as the milers and sprinters.
I can’t help thinking Archipenko will emerge the best middle-distance 3yo by the end of the season.
Hello,
The Derby is and always has been run too early in the season..but, heh! thats tradition folks!! :)
regards,
doyley
I still believe that the Derby is a great race, but it comes too early in the season, is over the wrong distance, and takes place on the wrong course for it to be the definitive ‘championship’ event.
Occasionally, something really special will win it and go on to prove itself a top-notch top-level performer.
More often, something quite good which stays the trip and has had no training problems in the weeks up to the race will win. This type are likely to struggle/disappoint in decent Group 1 company later on in the year, especially as their connections know they will have the eyes of the world fixed on them.
As in almost all years, there were some good horses in this year’s renewal. Authorized looks potentially very good, and might go on to prove himself as such especially given soft ground. The remainder don’t (at this stage) look a great bunch but probably include a couple who will show greatly improved form from here on.
Authorized is in a different class to his Epsom opposition and I’m not looking at the Derby also-rans to judge him. I think we’ll get a better idea of how good he actually is when he comes up against the older horses
To expect the Derby to consistently churn out an outstanding champion every year is unrealistic. Recent winners have performed well. To suggest that you need to look back to 2000 and beyond to find decent horses running in it is ludicrous given that two (possibly three) real champs have won since then. If you include the year 2000 then this decade may well yet turn out one of the better decades for Derby winners.
It won’t be the test itself (which has, throughout it’s exalted existence, proven itself to be an oustanding barometer of the pecking order among staying three year olds) but the dictates of fashion among trainers and owners and the steadily increasing globalisation of racing which will cause the status of the race to decline.
I firmly expect Authorised to prove yet again that Epsom, so often criticised as an unfair examination, is in fact a course which provides us with the soundest of clues to the relative merits of the generation.
<br>I’m always up for a giggle too maurice !.<br>Archipenko, your having a laugh, aren’t you ???<br>
(Edited by madman marz at 10:10 pm on June 22, 2007)
Archipenko, your having a laugh, aren’t you ???
I would be surprised if he turns out to be better than Authorized.
But he threw away his race before the Derby even started and he can’t be judged on that race.
I reckon the top 12f 3yo will either be Authorized, Teofilo if we ever see him and if he’s a 12f horse, or whatever the French (or should that be Fabre) has lined up for the GP de Paris.
Steve
But he [Archipenko] threw away his race before the Derby even started and he can’t be judged on that race.<br>Steve ÂÂÂ
I didn’t see the preliminaries. What happened??
Why should there be any surprise (or disappointment) that a 3-y-o race over a mile and a half in early June doesn’t produce a host of top-class participants ?<br>There are (comparatively) poor years for every "championship" race whether Derby, Guineas, Arc, Cheltenham or Ascot Gold Cup, Champion Hurdle etc.<br>Authorized’s position in the ranks of good/great Derby winners will be better judged on HIS future performances (rather than those he stuffed at Epsom) and not just on how he fared in the 12f 3-y-o-only early June GP1 which will rarely has "class" in great numbers. <br>Naturally, we would all like to see those who finished behind Authorized at Epsom come out and win good races galore but the style of Authorized’s win makes it quite possible that he’s a gem even if the others are duffers.
Is there any G1 restricted to 3yos that consistently throws up a steady stream of top horses?
Is there any G1 restricted to 3yos that consistently throws up a steady stream of top horses?
Irish Derby winners tend to be among the best 3yo’s.
I didn’t see the preliminaries. What happened??
Did you see Scorpion today?
That’s what happened … but even worse.
Steve
It usually takes a very good horse to win the Derby.<br>It’s always a fast pace and the course is a real test for a colt in terms of balance and stamina. Bringing a horse to its peak for the race might not help that horse to go on and challenge for top honours later in the season, but many horses have managed to do it.
It’s difficult to judge the quality of this years Derby by looking at what subsequently happens to horses who were in it, because the winner, Authorized, was a class apart from the rest. For him, this was the race that mattered and I don’t think he will better that performance. He may not need to in order to win more top races.
Sir Percy’s win last year was less spectacular, but still a top class run. He will eventually get back to that sort of form, I hope.
looking back the winners of both the fillies and colts races for 3yo at ascot have often gone to improving types not run at epsom. therefore I would suggest that the decent performances put up by lucarno and kid mambo coupled with the annhilation they got at epsom suggests to me that Authorized could well be the real deal (though i’ll admit bias on this one as I backed him at 12/1 immediatly after his RP trophy win last year and subsequently have become quite attached to him).
As far as Archipenko is concerned I had him down as the most likely of the ballydoyle runners to improve from the trial. he got very agitated in the preliminaries and to me at least it looked like he lost his action coming down the hill. i expect this horse to be group 1 placed at least this season, he was a very late foal, the derby was in fact just 2 days after his actual 3rd birthday and i reckon he could be top class given more time and a track to suit.
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