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Good job I did not have my computer on otherwise Alan may have taken some of my money. Well done mate.
Every year something happens in this race, with jockeys taking the wrong course or "not" taking the wrong course, as the case may be.
It may be a "spectacle" but I can not see any serious punter betting in these races in future.
Do other x country courses have so much trouble in directing runners?
Why don’t they just put a curved hedge around the (C) post as Equitrack says, to point the jocks in the right direction? With no pot plants in between. Leave it to the riders to get to each fence by the shortest route. As long as the hedge points them in the right direction there should not be a problem.
This is an Irish race, I do not think British horses are trained over such obstacles. Therefore, is it fair to race horses over objects they are not used to?
Mark
Value Is EverythingSome would argue that the French-breds are not used to jumping "spring back" hurdles or birch fences but we race them over those Mark, it’s swings and roundabouts – afaik there’s only Enda Bolger who schools his horses properly over these fences (from the age of 5 I must add) and I doubt Nicholls, Murphy etc. would go into the race without at least popping them over a few hedges and a bank or two pre-race.
The British racing authorities have adapted rather better to cross-country chasing, though, effortlessly seeing off all challengers with their bumbling muppetry…
Still, the incident represents progress of a sort, I suppose, being caused by a jockey actually knowing where they are going as opposed to not knowing.
As far as familiarity with the fences is concerned, it’s compulsory for a horse to have been schooled over the actual obstacles at Cheltenham before they are allowed to run.
To the best of my knowledge, there are no exceptions to this even for horses trained overseas.
I cannot go along with your concern about fairness here, Ginger; this race is part and parcel of the whole countryside thing. Many horses ( in Ireland, anyway) take part in hunts that run over moreorless anything!
I’m not sure whether GN contenders school over Aintree -type Christmas-tree-stacks, so maybe that race is also unfair?
I think both races are fair enough myself, but then, racing is as straight as a corkscrew, imo, so my view doesn’t mean much.
I cannot go along with your concern about fairness here, Ginger; this race is part and parcel of the whole countryside thing. Many horses ( in Ireland, anyway) take part in hunts that run over moreorless anything!
I’m not sure whether GN contenders school over Aintree -type Christmas-tree-stacks, so maybe that race is also unfair?
I think both races are fair enough myself, but then, racing is as straight as a corkscrew, imo, so my view doesn’t mean much.Am more concerned about the banks than fences Sean. The Grand National fences are different to park fences but they are still fences. But I suppose if they are schooled over them beforehand then that is o.k. What do they need to do schooling to be refused the chance to race? is another question.
Mark
Value Is Everythingconsider the crowds interest they are popular.and if you dont like them you can always turn telly off.
compensating for the fact that the race attracts some equine pensioners who aren’t good enough to win normal races?
“Normal” is relative.
I think I remember from our Sprotsnam days that you always did very well in the all-weather races at Southwell, and certainly it’s the only artificial surface course on which I back myself to find winners regularly.
Isn’t the uniqueness and incongruity of the Fibresand track next to others in the country just another manifestation of a “not normal” racing challenge, though, and with that the mulitple winners at the track not winners of “normal races”?
I could labour the point further and mention those turf courses that offer singular challenges, such as the figure of eight chase course at Fontwell, but I trust the point is understood, whether agreed with or not.
gc
I do enjoy some low-grade Fibresand action, Jeremy. I wouldn’t expect Royal Ascot to lay a 5f Fibresand straight so I could back some 50-rated sprinter there though.
Do other x country courses have so much trouble in directing runners?
Unfortunately so. This year, I have seen no less that SEVEN incidents where runners have gone the wrong way on cross country courses, probably the most famous one being the incident in the Velka Pardubicka last month, where three jockeys (including Keith Mercer on Ivoire de Beaulieu) went the wrong side of a marker post. Also last month, in a Fegentri chase at Baden-Baden (not strictly cross country, but a very confusing and twisty circiut), one of Christians horses, Imminent Victory, was leading turning into the home straight, but confused by the course layout, the French jockey went the wrong way, and three others followed him. It’s not just chases though – anyone who has seen the Merano Champion Hurdle earlier this year would have seen poor Phil Carberry on Ginko Biloba accidentally go round the chose course, mainly because the Merano course is probably the most confusing in the whole of Europe, as there are no rails apart from the bends and home straight.
OK, so Cheltenhams cross country course has had a few incidents in the last few years with horses going the wrong way, but having seen these incidents happen at courses like Pau, Le Lion d’Angers, Merano, Treviso and Grosseto, it’s a pitfall of cross country races in general.
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
A firm but fair response as always, Alan – many thanks.
Permit me to respond to a few points;There are even people who like Cartmel for some reason,
Weirdos. Let’s burn them.
1. The construction of the cross country track on the infield was largely responsible for the long running problems of fast ground conditions at the early season meetings and the Festival. The removal of the pasture to create the track meant that water ran away and/or evaporated faster than previously, lowering the water table across the whole course area.
Omlette, eggs and breaking springs to mind. Aren’t the problems experienced with the inconsistency and occasional firmness of Ascot and Wetherby’s racing surfaces since their respective redevelopments just as much of an indication of how hard it is to attempt any major project without upsetting the balance of the racing surface to an extent?
There has been an inevitability to the problems encountered with all three courses as, unlike Ascot when the jumps course was laid down there originally in the late 50s / early 60s, none of them were given five years to settle down before usage. It will be interesting to see if they get it right at Ffos Las straight away or not.
2. It was not introduced as an exciting new addition to the variety of races, but as a combination of cold calculation and vanity project. The calculation from the management concerned increasing the attraction of the November meeting to Irish visitors. The vanity from the original sponsor who just happened to own a top class elderly chaser that he thought would be able to run in the races.
It may wrankle, but I’m sure the motives, pure or otherwise, of laying down the course in the first place are of little concern to the majority of racegoers who have taken the races on it to their hearts.
I’d also suggest the cross-country course is no more or less of a vanity project that John Holmes wishing to bring world-class artificial surface racing to Great Leighs, or Dai Walters wanting to be the man who returned Rules racing to the Pembrokeshire-Carmarthenshire communities after a 70-year hiatus. You’d probably halve the number of courses in the country overnight if you closed all those that weren’t originally construed as a plaything or vanity project of some Big I Am way back in the bowels of history.
3. Cheltenham is already under a spotlight with regard to equine injuries and fatalities, just as it was at the time this track was built. I could see no possible benefit in giving the ‘antis’ another potential stick with which to beat NH racing. A death on the cross country track would have provided them with an ideal propoganda opportunity – ‘horses forced to jump banks’ etc. That hasn’t happened, but in my view, it remains a potential problem.
Speed kills, and cross-country races at Cheltenham are rarely that frantically run, even on a sounder surface – certainly not next to the Velka Pardubicka, at least, where the compulsion to get a good position and enough speed up to be able to clear the Taxis successfully engenders a faster tempo and, regrettably, the occasional awful accident.
I think most trainers out there also know what sort of an animal would act around the unique test of the course – broadly speaking, those that are clever, cute, easily bored or have exhibited notable agility when out hunting – and I’m personally convinced that this placement has had a positive effect on preventing carnage on a regular basis.
Leagaune breaking his back in the very first race over the course in November 1995 was emphatically not the start the course needed, but since then Buailtes and Fadas’ heart attack in November 2006 has been the only one to have occurred in the race.
That’s still two fatalities too many, but overall that’s two fatalities from a grand total of 333 runners (0.6%) in 26 contests over the course to date.
I’ve no issue with cross country races per se, but I just don’t think Cheltenham is the right place.
Few places better to my mind, and those of the hundreds who congregated with us on the infield on Friday, presumably.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Every year something happens in this race, with jockeys taking the wrong course or "not" taking the wrong course, as the case may be.
One fifth of the 26 cross-country races run over the course to date have featured some element of taking a different / wrong course;
14/11/98: one horse took wrong course
13/12/02: three horses took wrong course; carried on but disqualified
12/11/04: Registana took wrong course
16/11/07: three horses took wrong course but retraced
14/11/08: Dix Villez cut a corner legallyThat’s certainly a higher average than in park course races, but still appreciably short of Mark’s "every year", and certainly not enough to dissuade me from investing several shekels in these joyously different contests each time one is run.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
All they have to do at Cheltenham is to put up a notice to say that the bushes are the official rail marking of the course which they so obvioulsly are.
The Cross Country has been a welcome addition to out sport and after all it is what the first ever steeplchase back in Ireland was.
Apart from the rights and totally wrong issues here , it just leaves a sour taste , it was to most folk watching the race perceived as cheating
ok we all know it wasnt and credit to the Jockey for intelligence and ingenuity all round , however back at the farm punters feel shafted again , and frankly that damage is irrepairable
A Poor show in my view
cheers
Ricky
Do other x country courses have so much trouble in directing runners?
Unfortunately so. This year, I have seen no less that SEVEN incidents where runners have gone the wrong way on cross country courses, probably the most famous one being the incident in the Velka Pardubicka last month, where three jockeys (including Keith Mercer on Ivoire de Beaulieu) went the wrong side of a marker post. Also last month, in a Fegentri chase at Baden-Baden (not strictly cross country, but a very confusing and twisty circiut), one of Christians horses, Imminent Victory, was leading turning into the home straight, but confused by the course layout, the French jockey went the wrong way, and three others followed him. It’s not just chases though – anyone who has seen the Merano Champion Hurdle earlier this year would have seen poor Phil Carberry on Ginko Biloba accidentally go round the chose course, mainly because the Merano course is probably the most confusing in the whole of Europe, as there are no rails apart from the bends and home straight.
OK, so Cheltenhams cross country course has had a few incidents in the last few years with horses going the wrong way, but having seen these incidents happen at courses like Pau, Le Lion d’Angers, Merano, Treviso and Grosseto, it’s a pitfall of cross country races in general.
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
Having just received the excellent Big Green Annual for the year which gives such a wonderful pictorial record of the point to point season, I wonder what you would all make of the members race at Flagg Moor on Easter Tuesday. Not only over stone walls (see page 89 if you buy it) but starts in Flagg village and then it is take your own line apparently to the track. Now take your own line would be fun at Cheltenham.
Incidentally Flagg oor is one of the tracks I do want to visit one day, how about a Southerners TTRF bus trip.
Having just received the excellent Big Green Annual for the year which gives such a wonderful pictorial record of the point to point season, I wonder what you would all make of the members race at Flagg Moor on Easter Tuesday. Not only over stone walls (see page 89 if you buy it) but starts in Flagg village and then it is take your own line apparently to the track. Now take your own line would be fun at Cheltenham.
Incidentally Flagg oor is one of the tracks I do want to visit one day, how about a Southerners TTRF bus trip.
Thanks for that. I’ve found out that Flagg Moor has a website at http://www.flaggraces.co.uk and some interesting info there. I’ve never seen anything like this – I guess the nearest I could think of would be Worthington Valley in the USA, but that’s rows of timber rails and not stone walls. Certainly looks worth a visit!
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
I’m certainly eyeing up a trip to Flagg this time around, Bob, as I’ve never yet been, so let’s see if we can’t contrive something nearer the time!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Bob just beat me to it when i was going to mention the Members Race at Flagg on Easter Tuesday where you really do go across country to the actual track.
Would love to go their, Transport wise you can get a train to Buxton from Manchester and Stockport aswell as a Bus Service from Nottingham and Derby.
But unsure about getting to the track itself from Buxton, but as it is about 5-6 miles then perhaps a taxi could do the rest.
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