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It is consisistent, GAG. It’s just that jockeys on hold up horses don’t want to be racing close up and therefore are slower away – one or two getting a supposed advantage of a few lengths… And when there’s a lot of prominent runners are in the field they’re anxious to get away at or near the front – leading to false starts. It’s bound to happen! ie The starter is treating every race the same, it’s jockeys who (quite rightly) aren’t.
Punters who don’t understand racing will always imagine their horse gets a bad deal.
Value Is EverythingYes it’s the jockeys’ fault for doing it…but it’s the starters job to enforce the rules and make them close up so everyone starts from the same position. Of course in practice then in such a race as today at flagfall everyone will proceed at a hand canter for the first 15 or 20 yards till they have sorted themselves into the pattern they want- so the same end effect as just letting them do whatever the hell they like at the tape- but at least yhe starter will have applied the rules consistently.
Go back to the start of the race replay and pause it at the moment the flag drops. A split second later there’s a side on shot. Pause that and count the lengths between Saint Calvados and Hell’s Kitchen. Then tell me that’s consistent starting.
It is consistent.
It’s the place Hells Kitchen’s jockey wants/needs to be, GAG. ie Hells Kitchen is a notorious hard puller and needs to either lead (wasn’t going to with Saint Calvados in the field) Or dropped out the back with as many in front of him as possible (for the maximum chance he’ll settle). If everyone was forced to line up level it would be against the hold up horse’s chance and especially a hold up horse like Hells Kitchen that races freely given too much light.
The point is the starter will ask the jockeys if everyone is happy… And if the vast majority of horses in the field are hold up horses then the jockeys will be happy with their positions – ie happy giving Saint Calvados a head start. Being further forward would be to their own mount’s detriment because being towards the front of the pack is bad for a hold up horse’s chance…
…Where as: When there’s a whole load of front/prominent runners, when the starter asks if everyone is happy there’s likely to be a lot of shouting “no sir”! Some will be further back than is best for their mount… And there will also be jockeys trying to make sure they get away well (ie get in what is (for their mount) a favourable position by edging forward at a slightly faster pace than rivals… which leads to rivals then doing the same… which leads to a false start.
Value Is EverythingYes, but you don’t seem to realise why starts of races are different even though the starter treats them the same. It’s impossible to explain why without going in to detail about hold up and prominent runners.
Value Is EverythingI understand perfectly why they’re doing it. I don’t think they should be allowed to do it. You do. So we will have to disagree.
I get the arguement about hold up horses etc etc
BUT
You dont get this problem in ireland.
I understand perfectly why they’re doing it. I don’t think they should be allowed to do it. You do. So we will have to disagree.
Eh?
Do you really believe some jockeys should be made to line up in a position that’s detrimental to their own chance of winning? Do you really believe we should have far more rank horses, pulling their chance away because the jockey can not get the horse settled behind horses? Do you really want those horses that only run well when held up to be racing in front?… And because of that front/prominent runners unable to get a position they also need to produce their best too?… And all because you think they should all be made to start in a line?
Surely some discretion is needed by the starter allowing jockeys to line up behind rivals when that’s what is going to help their own mount win?
Value Is EverythingWhenever I’ve watched Irish racing you get more unequal starts than ever.
Value Is EverythingYes I think they should be in a roughly equal line walking in at flagfall. Anyone who wants to hold their horse up can stay near the outside and tuck in behind on the first 20 yards. If it’s such an unruly brute that it won’t do that, opens its mouth and takes off then it needs a bit of schooling, particularly at champion chase level.
I used to do eventing. You have to start the cross country in a box about 15 feet square. I had a mare that would get so revved up that if we’d had to do the whole countdown in the box she’d have been standing on her hindlegs or out over the side. The starter had the discretion to let me walk her into the box in the last few seconds, turn around and go on the whistle. I’d have preferred to stay pottering about 20 yards back the whole time but you had to start from the box. Those were the rules. If a kid can school a hot pony to walk into a starters box then trainers and professional jockeys can school horses to line up in some sort of order. I’m not talking household cavalry precision- plenty of times I’d be muttering “let them away” at the telly when a huge field of novices is walking quietly in within about a length of each other and the starter insists they take a turn- but a dozen lengths between first and last at flagfall in a small field looks ridiculous.
You’re right about Irish racing GT. Some of the starts here are absolutely farcical.
Am sure eventing taught you horses have their own individual temperaments and therefore their own needs. But with eventing the horse is alone… And being with a pack complicates things further. Am sure eventing horses are generally more amicable than racehorses too.
Horse Racing makes more use of a horse’s heard instinct, some are versitile, some are natural followers, some like to be in the pack, some like to lead, some need to lead, some want to be on the outside with room, some want to be surrounded by others and some are claustrophobic. etc. It’s not as easy as telling them to “do a bit of schooling”. Am sure you and others tried to school your pony/horse to be better in the box; was that successful? Trainers/jockeys often find it helps to keep the individual horse happy, it’ll respond better overall if allowed certain idiosyncrasies. Bloody hell, that’s a long word for me!
If a horse likes to be held up then it’s best to ride it that way, if it likes racing mid-div – do that, and if it likes racing prominently etc etc. Jumping off in a position that suits the horse is more important than getting away on level pegging.Of course sometimes this will be overdone – things happen that affect how horses get away. eg In the Champion Chase: Politologue had (when racing over longer trips) started further back in his two previous runs. Possibly got used to it and when Cobden asked him to go yesterday, he took a second or two to respond. Not getting away as quickly as Cobden wanted… And that meant a larger gap than they’d originally planned… and in turn meant a larger gap than intended back to all the others too.
Value Is Everything
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