- This topic has 19 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
An interesting piece in the RP today about Sunday racing though as is often the case these days, less a genuine debate and more a series of comments supporting one viewpoint.
I’m doubtful about the contention that more "quality" racing is needed on Sundays. I’ve been Sunday racing to Epsom, Sandown and Kempton and it just doesn’t work at these venues (possibly because they get more business from corporate hospitality).
There are clearly tracks where Sunday racing works irrespective of quality – I don’t doubt there will be huge crowds this weekend at Carlisle and Pontefract but I’m less convinced Ascot will get many more than if they had chosen to race on Thursday afternoon instead.
Perhaps we should just recognise that Sunday racing works best at some tracks and let them get on with staging the meetings that work for them. IF that means little or no "quality" action on a Saturday, I can’t say I’m that bothered.
Perhaps we should just recognise that Sunday racing works best at some tracks and let them get on with staging the meetings that work for them. IF that means little or no "quality" action on a Saturday, I can’t say I’m that bothered.
I wouldn’t be entirely in disagreement with that. Maxillon may be able to give a more definitive answer, but I’ve not been to a Southwell Sunday jumps meeting in the last 12 years or so that wasn’t heaving with racegoers.
That includes the 2010 renewal of that meeting they had a week last Sunday. Limited quality, but one heck of a lot of takers.
I’m intending to be at the Carlisle fixture you mentioned this Sunday, assuming weather and / or fatigue don’t intervene. If it’s anything like as busy as on Colin Parker Intermediate day (also a Sunday fixture), I’m going to have an awful lot of company.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
I must admit I’m surprised at people championing the cause of low grade racing on a Sunday. I’m not too sure we should be basing the success of something solely on how many punters come through the turnstiles at the track. I’m sure York would still get a healthy attendance if they dispensed with the Magnet Cup and other quality races and replaced them with 0-85 handicaps.
We are overloaded with low quality rubbish throughout the week and the more quality stuff they can put on (even on a Sunday) the better as far as I’m concerned.Sunday jump racing has never been more popular ,and whats wrong with that if it encourages people to come and enjoy racing. Market Rasen last Sunday was packed and Stratford on at the same time was very busy to,it seems obvious that the public love it.
I personally think it has massive potential for success if the right time effort and cards was put into this, however the authorities does not seem to want to.
I must admit I’m surprised at people championing the cause of low grade racing on a Sunday.
I’ve been doing this here and elsewhere for over a decade. Where have you been?
Flippancy aside, the issue’s a bit more nuanced than championing low-grade racing for low-grade racing’s sake, for all that low-grade racing is the thing I love.
Rather: it’s more of an observation that there are some courses far more predisposed towards pulling in a whacking crowd on a Sunday than others, and a goodly number of those are courses whose preserve is racing geared towards the lower end of the (actual and metaphorical) food-chain.
Maybe it would be nice for the Southwell jumps card a week last Sunday to have featured at least one contest of some quality and commensurate remuneration. The course has, after all, shown in the recent past that staging a large handicap of the nature of the Skybet / Great Yorkshire Chase is within its capabilities.
However, for as long as it can secure racedates such as that Sunday (as it has done for the last three years now) with a pretty modest prizmoney / race-type bid, it ain’t gonna do that.
And it especially ain’t gonna do that if the likes of Dirk Vennix get their way and courses are fined per sub-eight runner events (thread https://theracingforum.co.uk/horse-r … 92494.html refers). Hardly an incentive for putting on anything likely to attract a more classy and – potentially, although not definitely – a more numerically slim line-up of runners.
I’m not too sure we should be basing the success of something solely on how many punters come through the turnstiles at the track.
It’s not the be-all and end-all, but at the same time how many larger courses are going to want to put something really classy on to sparsely patronised grandstands merely as a sop to the quality-on-Sundays lobby, when a) terrestrial coverage is not guaranteed on the day to quite the same extent as on a Saturday, b) bar, bookies and corporate takings (to name but three) will take a hit?
I’m sure York would still get a healthy attendance if they dispensed with the Magnet Cup and other quality races and replaced them with 0-85 handicaps.
We’ve had an opportunity to prove that one way or another for a year or two now, of course.
Remember that York’s Sunday meeting in early September isn’t blessed with anything grander than a class 2 sprint handicap – http://www.racingpost.com/horses2/resul … -09-05#107 advises. Maybe that would be the sort of – by York’s standards – comparatively lowly Sunday fixture at a top-class track that I take it you’re meaning, but is anyone actually attending it? Can any TRFfers supply figures?
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
I haven’t got a clue what attendance Redcar got last Sunday and frankly I couldn’t care less, the card was absolutely appalling with 6 races under the already modest tariffs.
If that’s the best they can produce, should they really be allowed to continue?
The track has gone desperately downhill in recent years.Below are York’s September attendances since 1989. As can be seen, since the Thursday moved to Sunday the figures have increased significantly. It’s also worth noting that the Wednesday has been better attended this millennium than in the’90s, which may be a reflection of a general weekday increase nationwide. I don’t know
The last two columns are numbers of bookmakers and runners respectively
The Sunday figures are on a par with the Dante meeting and first day of the Ebor meeting, but not remotely comparable with Magnet Cup day which regularly draws 40,000
No idea why there were only 1800 in 2006, must have been raining all day
The Wednesday is gone now as it’s become the fourth day of the Ebor meeting
Taken from
http://aes.hblb.org.uk/Attend5.nsf/genA … W_webBasis
Wed06/09/1989 9,094 138 56 Flat
Thu 07/09/1989 8,340 134 49 Flat
Wed05/09/1990 8,117 145 60 Flat
Thu 06/09/1990 8,542 132 65 Flat
Wed04/09/1991 9,505 143 79 Flat
Thu 05/09/1991 8,952 133 74 Flat
Wed02/09/1992 7,648 141 64 Flat
Thu 03/09/1992 7,287 107 51 Flat
Wed01/09/1993 9,165 137 65 Flat
Thu 02/09/1993 8,236 129 55 Flat
Thu 01/09/1994 6,531 124 72 Flat
Wed04/09/1996 8,154 114 117 Flat
Thu 05/09/1996 7,521 111 100 Flat
Wed03/09/1997 7,121 93 93 Flat
Thu 04/09/1997 8,201 119 90 Flat
Wed02/09/1998 8,123 110 106 Flat
Thu 03/09/1998 7,650 114 96 Flat
Wed01/09/1999 8,604 87 107 Flat
Thu 02/09/1999 9,815 81 86 Flat
Sun 03/09/2000 18,519 147 141 Flat
Sun 02/09/2001 15,422 117 134 Flat
Wed05/09/2001 12,855 79 86 Flat
Wed04/09/2002 12,840 83 73 Flat
Sun 08/09/2002 16,912 121 113 Flat
Wed03/09/2003 13,950 82 91 Flat
Sun 07/09/2003 17,674 108 105 Flat
Wed01/09/2004 10,557 81 80 Flat
Sun 05/09/2004 19,845 126 109 Flat
Sun 04/09/2005 18,391 125 88 Flat
Sun 03/09/2006 1,841 13 81 Flat
Wed05/09/2007 9,847 73 64 Flat
Sun 09/09/2007 18,286 106 83 Flat
Sun 06/09/2009 15,618 124 93 Flat
Sun 05/09/2010 20,058 137 92 FlatAs a matter of interest here are the figures for the Magnet Cup meeting and the recently introduced second July meeting, the Friday of which is an evening-with-post-race-concert.
It again shows a general increase this millennium on both days
Fri 14/07/1989 7,981 106 50 Flat
Sat 15/07/1989 25,178 180 58 Flat
Fri 13/07/1990 8,404 106 45 Flat
Sat 14/07/1990 23,788 179 63 Flat
Fri 12/07/1991 7,610 92 38 Flat
Sat 13/07/1991 26,865 168 67 Flat
Fri 10/07/1992 8,232 106 45 Flat
Sat 11/07/1992 24,450 173 76 Flat
Fri 09/07/1993 7,689 96 57 Flat
Sat 10/07/1993 27,114 176 76 Flat
Fri 08/07/1994 9,746 101 64 Flat
Sat 09/07/1994 26,289 179 73 Flat
Fri 14/07/1995 8,039 90 39 Flat
Sat 15/07/1995 24,838 160 59 Flat
Fri 12/07/1996 9,532 98 57 Flat
Sat 13/07/1996 27,199 168 72 Flat
Fri 11/07/1997 10,545 97 65 Flat
Sat 12/07/1997 32,786 154 90 Flat
Fri 10/07/1998 10,315 96 44 Flat
Sat 11/07/1998 30,951 159 86 Flat
Fri 09/07/1999 11,822 88 49 Flat
Sat 10/07/1999 35,145 152 81 Flat
Fri 14/07/2000 10,735 77 63 Flat
Sat 15/07/2000 35,014 142 102 Flat
Fri 13/07/2001 11,926 81 67 Flat
Sat 14/07/2001 39,501 146 98 Flat
Fri 12/07/2002 10,948 75 44 Flat
Sat 13/07/2002 35,684 141 105 Flat
Fri 11/07/2003 12,664 78 63 Flat
Sat 12/07/2003 39,194 150 81 Flat
Fri 09/07/2004 11,558 76 61 Flat
Sat 10/07/2004 37,020 151 104 Flat
Sat 24/07/2004 21,816 131 70 Flat
Fri 08/07/2005 11,738 83 68 Flat
Sat 09/07/2005 35,343 153 96 Flat
Fri 22/07/2005 8,688 74 49 Flat
Sat 23/07/2005 23,221 138 50 Flat
Fri 14/07/2006 13,051 76 54 Flat
Sat 15/07/2006 40,152 150 64 Flat
Sat 29/07/2006 25,142 124 59 Flat
Fri 13/07/2007 13,496 78 55 Flat
Sat 14/07/2007 42,548 149 69 Flat
Sat 28/07/2007 29,752 129 66 Flat
Fri 11/07/2008 11,482 67 55 Flat
Sat 12/07/2008 35,280 143 79 Flat
Fri 25/07/2008 14,059 101 48 Flat
Sat 26/07/2008 30,220 128 68 Flat
Fri 10/07/2009 11,927 94 66 Flat
Sat 11/07/2009 39,914 148 93 Flat
Fri 24/07/2009 10,672 90 64 Flat
Sat 25/07/2009 36,250 138 86 Flat
Fri 09/07/2010 12,256 80 56 Flat
Sat 10/07/2010 41,581 148 79 Flat
Fri 23/07/2010 25,569 107 63 Flat
Sat 24/07/2010 42,586 144 84 Flat
Fri 08/07/2011 11,598 97 80 Flat
Sat 09/07/2011 40,155 152 105 FlatAscot was mentioned by the OP. Here are the stats for the QE2 meeting which since 1995 has included a Sunday that is very ‘good’
Of interest maybe to Stodge is the comparison between Friday and Sunday
Thu 28/09/1989 8,144 107 58 Flat
Fri 29/09/1989 7,992 101 52 Flat
Sat 30/09/1989 23,437 181 68 Flat
Thu 27/09/1990 7,696 105 58 Flat
Fri 28/09/1990 8,991 97 75 Flat
Sat 29/09/1990 22,810 170 78 Flat
Thu 26/09/1991 7,015 104 56 Flat
Fri 27/09/1991 6,867 100 73 Flat
Sat 28/09/1991 21,452 171 87 Flat
Thu 24/09/1992 6,532 100 59 Flat
Fri 25/09/1992 6,373 84 68 Flat
Sat 26/09/1992 17,462 165 76 Flat
Thu 23/09/1993 6,277 102 56 Flat
Fri 24/09/1993 6,192 93 64 Flat
Sat 25/09/1993 15,468 168 77 Flat
Thu 22/09/1994 6,027 81 53 Flat
Fri 23/09/1994 6,425 78 78 Flat
Sat 24/09/1994 19,984 167 77 Flat
Sat 23/09/1995 17,760 168 87 Flat
Sun 24/09/1995 13,852 146 85 Flat
Sat 28/09/1996 20,459 172 93 Flat
Sun 29/09/1996 13,383 122 99 Flat
Sat 27/09/1997 22,472 168 89 Flat
Sun 28/09/1997 14,416 121 76 Flat
Sat 26/09/1998 22,112 156 92 Flat
Sun 27/09/1998 14,629 109 76 Flat
Sat 25/09/1999 Abandoned Flat
Sun 26/09/1999 13,691 117 85 Flat
Sat 23/09/2000 18,557 139 93 Flat
Sun 24/09/2000 13,835 95 92 Flat
Fri 28/09/2001 10,844 85 116 Flat
Sat 29/09/2001 17,957 132 90 Flat
Sun 30/09/2001 14,025 84 84 Flat
Fri 27/09/2002 10,970 85 88 Flat
Sat 28/09/2002 18,190 140 77 Flat
Sun 29/09/2002 13,339 82 77 Flat
Fri 26/09/2003 11,052 62 80 Flat
Sat 27/09/2003 18,698 123 93 Flat
Sun 28/09/2003 15,706 91 61 Flat
Fri 24/09/2004 10,091 62 70 Flat
Sat 25/09/2004 18,156 123 82 Flat
Sun 26/09/2004 14,723 90 66 Flat
Fri 23/09/2005 2,146 20 86 Flat
Sat 24/09/2005 9,035 74 71 Flat
Sun 25/09/2005 6,678 68 61 Flat
Fri 22/09/2006 12,130 53 93 Flat
Sat 23/09/2006 19,441 98 74 Flat
Sun 24/09/2006 15,006 55 67 Flat
Fri 28/09/2007 10,900 36 78 Flat
Sat 29/09/2007 18,144 84 79 Flat
Sun 30/09/2007 14,466 50 74 Flat
Fri 26/09/2008 12,841 40 107 Flat
Sat 27/09/2008 21,140 73 102 Flat
Sun 28/09/2008 13,813 57 62 Flat
Fri 25/09/2009 12,840 42 86 Flat
Sat 26/09/2009 21,790 82 89 Flat
Sun 27/09/2009 14,419 55 63 Flat
Fri 24/09/2010 11,717 42 81 Flat
Sat 25/09/2010 22,202 88 84 Flat
Sun 26/09/2010 13,272 47 58 FlatThe racecourses have zero incentive to put on good quality cards on a Sunday because they’ll get decent crowds providing they can come up with a gimmick like a race for Football Mascots.
This is why there’s no decent racing on a Sunday.
Why put on a few listed races on, or a heritage handicap at £30k a pop, when they can fill the card with £2k claimers and Class 6 handicaps, and still get the same numbers through the gates ?
Yeats.Redcar last sunday plenty of runners and a decent crowd even in appaling weather.
Before you start bleating about quality show some respect to the owners who buy these horses and pay the training fees.hats off to these owners who iam sure get more thrills winning a 2k handicap as an arab millionaire winning a classic.
no problem with the premiership but the lower leagues have a right to survive as well.Before we start bleating over the old quality chestnut, it’d be nice to see us on the same hymn sheet as regards demanding
some
Sunday flat racing of whatever type, since there was none whatsoever on 10/4/11, 17/4/11, 8/5/11, 22/5/11, 5/6/11, 10/7/11.
ricard, all you post about is Redcar racecourse, maybe your racecourse should show a bit of respect to owners by putting up reasonable prize money instead of their usual pittance.
The sooner Rachel Hood’s scheme gets off the ground the better.The fact remains both Perth and Stratford got over 7,000 on the 10th and Southwell got just shy of 3,500 so that’s three healthy crowds and all up on 2010.
In 2010 Brighton got 2,875 for its meeting on the first Sunday in July. The meeting was moved to the Monday this year and the crowd number was 1,300.
I don’t see what’s wrong with those courses who can getting the meetings and pulling in the numbers on Sundays. IF a course can’t appreciably increase their attendance on a Sunday, I don’t see they should be forced to.
As for Ascot, in July 2009 they got more than 21,000 for their Sunday card but last year less than 14,000. Let’s see how it looks after this Sunday. On the other hand, the attendances at both Carlisle and Pontefract were much better in 2010 than in 2009.
What the stats in this thread seem to show is that racing as a spectator sport is as (if not more) popular than ever provided the meetings are staged when people are most able to attend. It’s hardly rocket science but apparently beyond the wit of the BHA/racecourses to organise. There should be three afternoon meetings and three evening meetings every Saturday and six afternoon meetings (split between 3 NH and 3 flat meetings) every Sunday. There should be no racing at all on Monday and other than the festivals, all midweek meetings should be in the evening.
other than the festivals, all midweek meetings should be in the evening.
Evening fixtures on a natural surface stop at the end of August and don’t resume until mid-April. Would you be advocating that non-Festival midweek fixtures should be the sole preserve of four all-weather tracks for seven and a half months in the year? Or have I missed something?
Consider that the racing programmes of some of the smaller jumps courses you and I hold particularly dear must have been founded on and based around midweek afternoons quite deliberately. Exactly half of Ludlow’s 16 fixtures take place on Thursdays, ditto seven of the 10 Wincanton racedays that don’t fall on weekends.
There may have been historical precedents for selecting these days – either to coincide with or (if representing too much of a conflict of interests) to avoid market days in these long-established market towns. Those considerations may be less pronounced now than previously, but even if they are, I’d suggest that an association with a certain day of the week being raceday still persists in the minds of many of either course’s local catchment (and presumably of many associated with the courses themselves).
See also Sedgefield, which always seemed to be a "Tuesday course" during my early years, and still opts for that day of the week for 11 of its 18 non-weekend fixtures even now; and Plumpton, whose 2011 itinerary consists strictly of four Sunday and 12 Monday fixtures. In each case, that can’t be without reason.
Stratford, of course, can race whenever they blimmin’ well feel like, as long as there’s something on the card that you can aim Carter at, Tuffers.
Grand effort under the penalty from your lad again at the weekend, especially having to lead under sufferance for part of it. Anything else on there for him in the near future?gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.