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Perhaps an Arc lead up run in one of the French trial races ( Prix Foy ) or Irish Champion Stakes ( Leopardstown ). Both are in the first two weeks of September.
Workforce is entered for the Brigadier Gerard Stakes at Sandown.
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He’d have no problem running in a Group 1 over a mile
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A.P. O’BrienWhich tells a great deal about how he wins his 10f races, but nothing at all for his prospects of staying a truly run KG.
It doesn’t tell us a whole lot imo reet! He said Rip would win a Golden Jubilee, wouldn’t think he’d have won a Group 1 over 10f at that arte then would you.
A lot of Aidan O’Brien quotes need to be taken with a pinch of salt… "speed/pace/more speed" etc…
Personally I don’t see 1m4f being a problem at all.
So You Think is an established top class middle distance horse (though he is yet to run over 12f). He has impressed me at least in his two outings to date against inferior opposition, the opposition was only inferior however because Sir Michael Stoute took one look at the Mooresbridge on TV and didn’t fancy it at all for Workforce. Not SYT (nor his connections) fault if one of Europe’s top 2 or 3 trainers is windy/wise.
SYT has won 2 Cox Plate’s amongst his G1s and that is the equivalent of two Arcs.
The point has been well made however that Australian/European middle distance form is rarely tested due to the kind of horses Europe send to Melbourne and the Australian predominance in sprints. What a chance we have to learn more.As for Planteur I am a fan.. but 10f in the POW looks a bit short and the thought of a Danehill Dancer relishing the usually rattling fast Ascot 10f course is not a likely one in my view. Wrong trip, wrong ground and wrong country for Planteur far better to wait to the Arc to meet SYT. Planteur has an Eclipse entry and should take on Await The Dawn there instead..in my view….assuming he is going to sit out July and August like most Frenchmen.
I actually think that (like Workforce)there will be a lot of horses swerving SYT this season and he could easily get to the Arc after a series of facile shortodds victories.
If all goes well Frankel will take in the Juddmonte surely (ownership/sponsorship). SYT will take in the Irish Champion the most prestigious race in the country where he is now trained..obvious target. Not many horses take in both (Sea The Stars did obviously) so Frankel and SYT may not meet at all.
If SYT doesn’t go down to a mile he won’t meet Goldi/Canford or Frankel. I can’t see anything to touch him at 10f and that leaves Workforce and the Derby winner for 12f. If Ballydoyle win the Derby, 12f competition may be scarce also.This is the most exciting flat season I can remember or looked forward to in 35 years but the pessimistic part of me can see a lot of body swerving even from this distance.
Of all the horses trained in Europe a clash between Frankel and So You Think at 10f is the one I would dream of most
10f’s the wrong trip for Planteur? He was crying out for it as well as quick ground last season. His class alone was getting 12f but it was stretching him. Different horse you’ll see this season.
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It doesn’t tell us a whole lot imo reet! He said Rip would win a Golden Jubilee, wouldn’t think he’d have won a Group 1 over 10f at that arte then would you.
A lot of Aidan O’Brien quotes need to be taken with a pinch of salt… "speed/pace/more speed" etc…
Personally I don’t see 1m4f being a problem at all.
Take your point, thm, but it’s what he didn’t say that intrigues me.
SYT would be a natural over a UK mile, but that’s not on his schedule, yet no mention of his prospects for the 12f he’s pencilled in for.That sounds exactly like an Aidan O’Brien quote made with the horse’s stud value in mind. We’ll never see him run over a mile in Europe.
I think Planteur has as good a chance as any to beat SYT, because his trainer is adamant 10f is his best trip and I feel SYT might find the trip just a shade sharp (based on his wins in Australia and his Melbourne Cup performance).
I’ve forgiven Planteur’s Arc (where he was unlucky if I remember correctly) and HK Cup runs as well as Behkabad’s Breeders’ Cup run, and going with the theory that they ran each other into the ground. Planteur’s latest win was far better than his run in HK. I also forgive Workforce’s flops. Clear excuses in the Dante and for whatever reason didn’t show up in the KG. But I don’t rate either of his 3yo wins as highly as some others, and my feeling is that he might need to improve to beat SYT.I’m sorry to the user who said this but the Cox Plate is not an Arc. But it’s still a strong race that SYT won as he liked.
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Presto
While I agree that Workforce’s 3yo form makes him no laydown for this year’s Arc, it was certainly good enough for him to be wheeled off to a lucrative career at stud. That he wasn’t, and he’s in the hands of the man who’s recognised and exploited the potential of many similar, speaks volumes for the regard he’s held in, and he looks certain to improve on his achievements again this year..
SMS became very careful not to overrace the horse after his King George debacle (remember which one Ryan Moore chose to ride), the decision to run in the Arc wasn’t taken till the 11th hour when he was certain the horse was right, and no doubt the same applies this season.
He is unquestionably a high class horse with the potential to be even better, so the notion (not yours, I might add) that he is swerving anyone, I find entirely laughable.Very probable that Workforce would only have been kept in training if his trainer knew he was going to improve past the WFA allowances he has to concede to 3yos.
Surprised at the people still knocking the horse. Fastest Derby winner ever (in a watering age which ensures we we will never get firm ground again), and won a moderately run Arc with a smart turn of foot to get himself out of trouble which the likes of Sarafina, Planteur and Behkabad could not manage.
Sir Michael Stoute is the master of training the older horse at Group 1 level, and he knows this is possibly the best horse he has ever been allowed to keep in training at 4.
Agree So You Think has been very impressive in 2 starts. But he has not been faced with a Group 2 level opponent, let alone Group 1, and neither of his time figures In Ireland have registered above 88.
Given Workforce makes just normal improvement from 3 to 4, So You Think still has well over 2 stone improvement to find with Workforce who ran to 125+ at Epsom.
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Gee I’ve read some rubbish on this thread. Planteur not a genuine ten furlong horse? So You Think needs to find two stone improvement? So You Think may find ten furlongs too sharp?
Are we all just playing "let’s get a reaction from someone" now? This is looking like the most unintelligent discussion around.
Anyone else impressed by what a beast the horse is? Very imposing creature, reminds me of that American horse from a few years back Curlin. This horse deserves to wrestle the nickname "the tank" from a horse he makes look like a yearling!
In my head, and in the articles I call him the Australian Machine! He will not lose another race this season, mark my words – 24/5/11 Jack Milner
Gee I’ve read some rubbish on this thread. Planteur not a genuine ten furlong horse? So You Think needs to find two stone improvement? So You Think may find ten furlongs too sharp?
Are we all just playing "let’s get a reaction from someone" now? This is looking like the most unintelligent discussion around.
The time has finally arrived – we agree on something. Farcical thread.
Sarafina looked good yesterday but still very hard for a mare to win the race (despite the good place record in the event in recent years) – Zarkava excluded.
Hope that the Japanese send a few over again – would be great to see them get a win in the race and good for those punting on the PMU too
Planteur is a top notch perfomer at 10f though Bart Cummings has been stirring it some about the value of European racing in relation to how So You Think did on Sunday – think he might have had a drink though
Arc this year is wide open. Workforce’s win last season was less than spectacular given the advantage of the weight allowance at that point in the season. He has it all to prove this season.
SYT still has it all to prove as his wins in Europe have been against inferior opposition though his form back home is very good.
Of course Head would say SYT has no chance as he is French and protectionist and thus will by proxy support the French horses including Planteur.
Planteur will not win anything this season based on his current abilities BUT he may have improves from last year to this year…
Personally I am excited about Jan Vermeer making his seasonal reappearance in the Brigadier Gerard as Aidans are in flying form at the moment.
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