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Must have missed that – Apologies!
I don’t think it is inconceivable that ED and Kauto have regressed, both are french breds after all, and that Snoopy Loopy has improved. I would agree however that the rating is still over the top.
He’s stuffed for the next 2 years in handicaps that’s for sure.
He was under severe pressure a long way out in the Betfair and a combination of 4 things allowed him to win. Tamarindbleu IMO is overrated and was a certainty to run out of gas at some point….Kauto Star ran at least 20lbs below his best and ED ran one of the worst races of his life.
The 4th thing is he fought like a tiger and thoroughly desereved to win but why can’tthese people use their imagination a bit more.
I know it was a grade 1 but find Handicappers extremely annoying and they can at times lump weights on to horses without any real thought.
It was just one of those days when his luck was in and to hammer him without further proof he’s improved as much as it looks on paper they should have gone easier on him IMO The Dark Knight got it about right with a 160+
I have just tried to find out Snoopy Loopy’s OR, but the RP have it down as 157, but that is the same mark that he won off at the weekend. Has the official handicapper not raised him yet? ? ?
His RPR however, is 172.
Those responsible for allocating these marks are doing all of us a disservice.
From top to bottom this is happening.A horse winning a handicap by twenty lengths these days is getting a 20lb hike in the weights regardless of its previous form or the make up of the race it won.Although I do have sympathy with the handicpper in many cases where it is difficult to give a horse its first rating with any real certainty but this course of action is being applied to exposed performers with little or no previous winning records.However, the handicapper doesn’t drop a horse 20lb the minute it gets beaten 20 lengths It takes at least a few disappointments to accord a drop in the ratings.
I suggest they put a limit on the amount a horse can be raised in one hit.The handicappers work at present is too literal.
They don’t appear to be catering for circumstance and conditions on the day and the longer this is going on the more the ratings are becoming confused.My biggest bug bear is Master Minded’s rating.He is a very good horse but yet too prove himself a true champion which his rating suggests he is.When he does it fine.I don’t believe what I saw in the Champion Chase and felt Aintree vindicated my view.Do you think he can be rated a better horse than Moscow Flyer at this stage of his career??
The handicapper had no choice. MM beat the current Champion Chaser by a street and that champion chaser had won the Arkle the year before so to argue he didn;t run to form would have been pretty difficult. There was no reason other than the performance of MM really was that good.
Whether he should carry that rating everywhere is another debate but on that day I think he warranted it or very close.
Hot of the press, the best chasing performances in the UK this year. I have compiled these ratings based on the quality of the oppostion the winner faced in each race and NOT factored weight into the equation. Next time I see SL 172 (26-10) and 173 rated TB (19-01) take on horses just 1 point ahead (ED) at 33/1 and 25/1 respectively I know what I’ll be doing
race date horse name pauls rating
14-03-2008 Denman 186
03-04-2008 Our Vic 185
03-04-2008 Kauto Star 185
13-03-2008 Our Vic 180
14-03-2008 Kauto Star 179
14-03-2008 Neptune Collonges 179
22-11-2008 Snoopy Loopy 177
22-11-2008 Tamarinbleu 177
26-10-2008 Knowhere 175
13-03-2008 Mossbank 175
26-01-2008 Knowhere 174
22-11-2008 Exotic Dancer 174
26-10-2008 Exotic Dancer 174
04-04-2008 Voy Por Ustedes 174
13-03-2008 Master Minded 173
19-01-2008 Tamarinbleu 173
26-10-2008 Snoopy Loopy 172
03-04-2008 Exotic Dancer 171
09-02-2008 Denman 171
26-10-2008 Mister McGoldrick 170
01-11-2008 State Of Play 170
26-10-2008 Voy Por Ustedes 170
14-03-2008 Halcon Genelardais 170
26-10-2008 Oslot 169
01-11-2008 Ollie Magern 169
26-01-2008 Our Vic 168
13-03-2008 Turko 168
13-03-2008 Knight Legend 168
16-02-2008 Kauto Star 167
13-03-2008 The Listener 167
01-11-2008 Snoopy Loopy 165
13-03-2008 Racing Demon 165
09-02-2008 Master Minded 165
01-11-2008 Roll Along 164
22-11-2008 Cloudy Lane 164
26-04-2008 Andreas 164
15-11-2008 Joe Lively 164
26-01-2008 Neptune Collonges 163
16-02-2008 Neptune Collonges 162
19-01-2008 Twist Magic 161
03-04-2008 Stan 161
05-04-2008 Comply Or Die 160
04-11-2008 Ashley Brook 160
26-10-2008 Monet’s Garden 160
01-11-2008 Air Force One 160
01-03-2008 Natal 160
11-03-2008 Tidal Bay 160
09-02-2008 Voy Por Ustedes 160
03-04-2008 Dev 159
22-11-2008 Jack The Giant 159
16-02-2008 Racing Demon 159
04-04-2008 Big Buck’s 159
16-02-2008 Monet’s Garden 159
26-01-2008 Billyvoddan 158
01-11-2008 Turko 158
01-03-2008 Nacarat 158
05-04-2008 Tidal Bay 158
15-11-2008 Imperial Commander 158
08-01-2008 Jack The Giant 157
19-04-2008 Iris De Balme 157
04-04-2008 Battlecry 157
03-04-2008 Lord Henry 157
02-02-2008 Howle Hill 157
02-02-2008 Lennon 157
26-04-2008 Monkerhostin 156
04-04-2008 Master Minded 156
26-01-2008 An Accordion 156
13-03-2008 Albertas Run 156
26-01-2008 Ungaro 156
05-04-2008 King Johns Castle 156
15-11-2008 Barbers Shop 155
23-11-2008 Black Apalachi 155
01-03-2008 Oneway 155
16-02-2008 Albertas Run 155
05-04-2008 Snowy Morning 155
26-04-2008 Lord Henry 155
26-01-2008 Madison Du Berlais 155
26-04-2008 Royal Auclair 154
11-03-2008 An Accordion 154
14-03-2008 Exotic Dancer 154
23-02-2008 Gungadu 154
13-03-2008 Voy Por Ustedes 154
14-11-2008 Ornais 154
04-11-2008 Mahogany Blaze 153
27-09-2008 Always Waining 153
02-02-2008 Pablo Du Charmil 153
16-11-2008 Pablo Du Charmil 153
26-10-2008 Regal Heights 153
26-04-2008 Fiepes Shuffle 153
26-01-2008 Ma Yahab 153
01-03-2008 Cloudy Lane 153
23-02-2008 Kelami 153
16-02-2008 Air Force One 153
03-04-2008 Lennon 153
16-02-2008 Battlecry 152
05-04-2008 Takeroc 152
17-10-2008 Parsons Legacy 152
13-03-2008 Roll Along 152
04-04-2008 Oedipe 152
26-10-2008 Cloudy Lane 152
11-03-2008 L’Ami 152
03-04-2008 Magic Sky 152
14-03-2008 Tiger Cry 152
11-03-2008 New Alco 152
02-11-2008 Tidal Bay 152
22-11-2008 My Petra 152
13-03-2008 Old Benny 151
26-04-2008 Hoo La Baloo 151
13-03-2008 Mister McGoldrick 151
26-04-2008 Iris De Balme 151
16-02-2008 Wanango 151
09-02-2008 Regal Heights 151
02-02-2008 Hasty Prince 151
08-01-2008 Fundamentalist 151
02-02-2008 Bambi De L’Orme 151
19-04-2008 Marcel 151
19-01-2008 Regal Heights 150
19-01-2008 Mansony 150
17-10-2008 The King Of Angels 150
15-11-2008 Halcon Genelardais 150
02-02-2008 Vinmix De Bessy 150Those responsible for allocating these marks are doing all of us a disservice.
Given the universal exposure of ORs and RPRs and the faith many place in the supposed ‘experts’ who compile them, from a betting point of view it’s a welcome disservice for those willing to dig a little deeper.
- Total Posts 17716
Did anyone see Snoopy Loopy about 8 from home… 170 justified.
Yes Aragorn. The scale is based soley on distance beaten, no weight added or subtracted. Will be anathema to the purists but I like it
I have the hurdles version just finished as well
In that case you should have master minded ahead of voy por ustedes and not behind?
Interesting stuff Cav…thanks.
Back to the Betfair for a minute if Cloudy Lane is reckoned to have run to form and this has affected SL rating then I would say this is misleading. I feel Cloudy Bay could have been involved in the finish if he had been ridden properly. His jockey semed to think KS was going to win comfortably and when the race fell apart at the last he was not in a position to take advantage. He ran about 8-12lbs below form for me.Im giving VPU more credit for beating MM post Queen Mother. MM still had it to prove at Cheltenham, he had done that by Aintree.
I think that Snoopy Loopy’s 170 rating is probably about right, maybe give or a take a few pounds. Had exotic dancer have won and been awarded the same rating no-one would bat an eye lid. Snoopy Loopy despite having a name that you may expect to see in Class 4 or 5 handicaps, is actually by Old Vic, who has an ability to knock up very good 3 mile chasers, such as Our Vic, King King, Racing Demon, Comply or Die, Black Apalachi and Mister Pointment etc, etc. We wont know until he runs again, but I think that Snoopy Loopy looks a genuine grade 1 horse, with the form he’s in at the moment and could be up to winning the Lexus perhaps.
- Total Posts 17716
Shabby
Cloudy Lane is almost certainly being trained to peak for the Grand National, as he was last season (and the season before, although the Irish version), and has probably run to what you’d expect at this time of the season, though not to his best.
Snoopy Loopy is definitely improving, but hardly as rapidly as a bare reading of Saturday’s form suggests. His trainer thinks he would have won the Charlie Hall but for it being too close to his previous run, (Which raises serious questions about the plan to run him in the Hennessy ) which would have earned him a mark little diffferent to his then 157. For him then to improve by a further 13lb on his next run (His 16th chase run) stretches credibility somewhat, imo.
Neither Kauto Star or Exotic Dancer ran to their true form, which leaves just Cloudy Lane and Tamarinbleu to rate Snoopy Loopy from.
T appeared not to last home, and probably ran 6/7lbs below his best because of it, likewise CL for reasons given above, which suggests Snoopy Loopy ran in the region of 160, a much more plausible figure in view of his previous form.
All imo, of course.Even as a Peter Bowen horse fanatic, i was suprised by 170. The horse will have a lot to prove in the Hennessy. But i reckon he’ll come home in front by a whisker!
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