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This years Gold Cup was a full 6 seconds slower than when See More Business beat Go Ballistic by a length on good to soft ground in 1999. That race also consisted of 12 runners, and before the fence modifications.
Hardly a classic Gold Cup renewal then?
There’s Good to soft and there’s good to soft. Some good to softs equate to good ground, some to soft ground.
The time alone doesn’t indicate the quality (or lack of) of any race.
When you look at how much all the races of the week differed from standard, the times of the champ chase and gold cup look pretty good times
I am told The first circuit was run in 1.42 seconds faster than last year but the race was 7.6 seconds slower.than last year…..that means when Denman took over he actually took 9 seconds longer than they did last year to cover the second curcuit…… tacky ground according to Ruby which would explain that.
The Foxhunters was the same which tells you everything….there is very little difference between the time differences of Kauto and the foxhunters and Denmans and the foxhunters this year………nothing conclusive as far as I can see other than to say Kauto was 7 length behind and hated the ground. Ruby has already said that………anyone watching could see that unless of course they are blindly in love with Denman
When you look at how much all the races of the week differed from standard, the times of the champ chase and gold cup look pretty good times
I would hope so Bul they are the two highest rated horses in the country
Yes, a few hard facts wouldn’t go amiss, imo.
Before the Festival, and even after the gale warning, many pundits on here were chatting blithely about how Cheltenham is a well-drained course, etc, etc.
After the race, some of the excuse-makers are suggesting that Kauto couldn’t cope with conditions. Others are exclaiming that there must have been a problem with him.
Well, it’s certain that I don’t know, but if the stable had known, why didn’t they withdraw the poor critter? There were three non-runners in the race as it was.
Perhaps they didn’t have a clue, or, perhaps, they knew all along that he was going to get trounced?Generally speaking, my guess is that these 3mile+ chasers take about two minutes to run a mile. I’ll be keen to see what the time experts come up with.
Other factors, for which allowances, may have to be made, are
"ageing"
and
"wear and tear" of racing.None of us are exactly what we were a year ago, imo.
All I can say is that Denman was the best horse that I saw there that day.
He cartianly was Sean I could agree with you more but it doesn’t alter the fact Ruby said he didn’t feel right in the race…….they have no real way of telling it is such a fine line between being 100% spot on and being 98% right that it doesn’t show until you run them..
After the race, some of the excuse-makers are suggesting that Kauto couldn’t cope with conditions. Others are exclaiming that there must have been a problem with him.
Well, it’s certain that I don’t know, but if the stable had known, why didn’t they withdraw the poor critter? There were three non-runners in the race as it was.
Perhaps they didn’t have a clue, or, perhaps, they knew all along that he was going to get trounced?Connections of Kauto Star still picked up £100,639.95 for finishing second so that’s probably why they didn’t withdraw him. And [in the end] he wasn’t trounced – he was beaten seven lengths. Voy Pur Ustedes was trounced, Kauto Star wasn’t – he was just beaten fair and square.
Kauto’s best performance to date was all of 80 odd days ago. Simply cant buy into assumptions that hes on the downgrade. Hes hardly pushing 11 is he?
As for the times, surely the sligest variation in going will make a huge differnce over 26 furlungs? Times on the jumps are of virtually no interest to me frankly
And Cheltenham does drain well. After that weather many course would have been riding heavy side of soft
The tacky ground has almost certainly affected the time there- last year on officially the same going the race was 7 seconds faster than Friday’s contest. Watch both races and your eyes will tell you there’s something not quite right about that statement.
Watch the race again.
Kauto Star was close enough and travelled well throughout. His jumping may not have been perfect, but the notion that he clouted every other fence simply does not wash with me. He simply could not quicken in the manner Ruby or his supporters thought he would when Sam Thomas and Denman upped the ante. Thomas looked round twice for any sign of a forward move from the champ; saw that all was well, then looked to give the big horse a breather before setting sail for home. Had the race been run any quicker, Denman would have won by twenty lenghs, not seven.
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"Good to soft" going covers a range – from good to soft that is nearly good, to good to soft that is nearly soft – of more than 10 sec at 3m+, and that’s even before you get into the fact that Simon Claisse’s "good to soft" is not what everyone else would regard as good to soft.
You should be guided by the times and not by some bloke’s statement of what he would like the going to be – expressed in terms that are hopelessly imprecise for time analysis purposes – in other words.
The time of this year’s Gold Cup looks good once allowance for the conditions has been made, but not outstanding. The way the race was run ensured that it would have been very difficult for even a Denman to record a 180+ time.
In percentage terms they came back from 3 out slower than any other recent Gold Cup and a fair bit slower than optimum judged on many other races at the track.
They did that because they went quickly prior to that. As a matter of interest, Denman got to 3 out nearly a furlong ahead of the winner of the Foxhunters’.
Himself’s comments about Kauto’s jumping is absolutely spot-on.
Judging by the post-race comments one could be forgiven for thinking that Kauto Star clambered over fences. This is not true.
He merely ‘fiddled’ a couple, nothing more than that.
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This years Gold Cup was a full 6 seconds slower than when See More Business beat Go Ballistic by a length on good to soft ground in 1999. That race also consisted of 12 runners, and before the fence modifications.
Hardly a classic Gold Cup renewal then?
RP going allowances for the 3 races were:
1999 See More Business -0.13 secs
2007 Kauto Star -0.19 secs
2008 Denman -0.79sWhich effectively means that Denman ran the race (after adjustments) some 8.32 secs faster than Kauto Star, and 11.53 secs faster than See More Business, which puts things in rather a different light?
Also the way Denman was tiring at the end of the race, carrying 2lbs less than when going away over the same distance on softer ground (g.a. -1.09s) in the Hennessey, entirely supports what Pru’s sectionals tell us – that it was the thoroughly demanding all-round test of stamina that it appeared.Fascinating pace report from Pru
and Reet Hard’s hard comparative facts
are compelling if they place Kauto Star
just ahead of the battling titch See More Business
The excess races on day three
may have helped churn the butter in the ground..I was an independant observer
clutching the Grimes Bible throughout,
but there is also the interesting
subjective element to race times
Those who backed Denman saw the race slowly
and wanted time to race
while the stargazers wanted even more time.In the past
I have complained to the Aintree executive
about selective anti-frisk watering of the course
the night before. Possibly more on that later." Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:59 pm
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The good draining qualities of Prestbury Park have been pointed out several times, but, imo, the track will be in a right old state come Friday. "
It was, imo.
Denman coped, but it was hard work.
Which effectively means that Denman ran the race (after adjustments) some 8.32 secs faster than Kauto Star, and 11.53 secs faster than See More Business, which puts things in rather a different light?
Also the way Denman was tiring at the end of the race, carrying 2lbs less than when going away over the same distance on softer ground (g.a. -1.09s) in the Hennessey, entirely supports what Pru’s sectionals tell us – that it was the thoroughly demanding all-round test of stamina that it appeared.Aren’t you forgetting that See More Business & Go Ballistic humped round 12 stone each in 1999. Denman & Kauto 11st 10lbs. How does that equate over 3 miles 2 furlongs on good to soft?
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