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I think that breeding, due to fashion is in a dangerous state in the world, soon they will have made the St Leger a G2 race & relagated the Derby to a mile & a quarter to accomodate all those horses from Green Desert & Danehill lines.
You’re being unduly pessimistic! I don’t think either of the above has a chance of happening, even with the race planners we’ve got these days, but I sympathise with your sentiments.
As an aside, Danehill is one of those rare stallions that’s proved neutral in terms of the stamina requirements/limitations he imparts to his offspring. He cedes this particular genetic inheritance entirely to his mates, so his foals’ staying ability is merely a reflection of what exists in the general breed population today. Other examples of this peculiarity over the last 50 years are Ahonoora, Quorum and March Past. Incidentally, that’s why the Dosage Zealots have not made him a chef-de-race – he can’t be placed into any of their aptitude categories..
Sea The Stars would’ve hacked up yesterday he is so far ahead of the bunch that ran in the Leger it would’ve been a piece of work to him. Every horse stays every trip to a degree whether or not they win is how well they stay it relative to their opposition. Sea The Stars is a good stone and a half better than the Leger field.
Unfortunately we will never know if STS stays. And thats the most annoying thing. This chance for the triple crown is unlikely to come along for another 20 years if history is anything to go by.
Just a point though. Sea The Stars is such as laid back horse…surely he could have been put to sleep for 13f then won? The horse has no idea how far he is racing, he just runs. Its not like he is a coiled up sprinter who runs flat out until he has no more to give.
I would have run him in the St Leger, got him some cover, if needs be run a pacemaker. He would have been the only triplecrown winner of my generation.
If i was the owner it would be the arc then the breeders cup classic which will make him an immortal. I wouldnt have ran him in the leger because i certain horse calls shergar comes to mind.
I am interested in what you say about neutrality Veusian; I see this with Ahonoora & March Past but please can you give me an example of Quorum, other than Red Rum, who doesn’t factor in this being a jumper.
I’d have missed the Irish Champion, and run in the St Leger. Possibly a once in a generation opportunity to have a crack at the Triple Crown.
Once again, business takes over, and history is forgotten about. When is this fascination with speed going to end? Where are the future stayers/NH horses going to come from?
I’ve read and heard comments about him being versatile – what rubbish. Sea Pigeon, Royal Gait, Alderbrook were versatile – he’s only run from 8-12f.And people wonder why Flat racing fails to capture Joe Public’s imagination…..
Jumpers are heros, but flat race classic winners are breed makers.
A staying chaser like Denman would get kicking from say Mastermind over two miles….
Under the knife, and being prepped for the Fred Winter.
No,no, let’s not hurry. Put him out a in field for a year strengthening up for his novice campaign. Start with a couple of little events at Kelso and Musselburgh in Autumn 2010 and work from there.
We’ve missed out on winning the Cheltenham Festival bumper, but these things happen!
Rob
Rob, mustn’t forget Hexham and Carlisle either as he will get used to racing uphill and down dale over jumps as well and if all else fails, there is always the flapping scene at Hawick and Langholm.
Oh and if he were mine it would have to be the St. Leger and then the Arc can wait until next year and would only go for the Breeders Cup if it was at Belmont and then not the Classic but the Turf or the so called "Marathon" (if ever a race was badly named it was that one).
I am interested in what you say about neutrality Veusian; I see this with Ahonoora & March Past but please can you give me an example of Quorum, other than Red Rum, who doesn’t factor in this being a jumper.
Quorum, a top class 7/8f performer by the very fast specialist speed sire Vilmorin, ran second to your good self in the 1957 2000 Guineas and sired plenty of winners besides Red Rum…
…notably the fine sprinter-miler Quarryknowe, the Bunbury Cup (7f) winner Grey Lord, Spark (placed in a July Cup), durable middle distance handicapper Quortina (who used to have a race named after her at Windsor), Yorkshire Cup winner and Northumberland Plate placed Quartette, also another good stayer in Quarrymaster.
So he sired winners over all distances
It would have been a wonderful break with current convention and a boost for tradition if he had run in the leger. I think i would have done that. The arc can wait til next year
Everyone goes on about breeding values and so on, but isnt that pretty well copper bottomed anyway? And so what if hes only worth 40m instead of 50m if he ran over further? Does the owner really need the money?
But it
wouldn’t
have affected his stud fee or syndication value.
His record as a Group1 winner over 8/10/12f stands on its own merits, and that, along with his superb pedigree, is what will determine his value as a stallion prospect. Whether he can, or cannot, last home over 14.5f can be of no consequence whatever in this regard, even to the dimmest breeder..
Oh and if he were mine it would have to be the St. Leger and then the Arc can wait until next year and would only go for the Breeders Cup if it was at Belmont and then not the Classic but the Turf or the so called "Marathon" (if ever a race was badly named it was that one).
You mean the ‘Snickers’?
Rob
I thought that must be the case Venusian. The pain is that the Irish Champion stakes is so close to the Leger and I suppose there was this emotional commitment to run him on home terrority.
I just slightly suspect that without that pressure (and from his comments earlier this year) and given a free reign, Oxx would have opted for the leger
But hes Japanese owned isnt he? Is the Japan Cup a target that everyone has forgotten about?
I had forgotten that Quartette was a stayer. Of course Red Rum was bred to be a sprinter, he must have derived stamina from Anwar, but he would never have been a stayer on the flat on pedigree. Quorum’s pedigree is interesting as he is by a fast horse from a mare with a staying pedigree it looks like the mares ability to stay or sprint tapped into one or the other portion of his pedigree. That is why I find the breeding side so interesting.
Guys let be perfectly honest here.
The Irish Champion Stakes is one of the most important race of the year.
The roll of honour is as impressive as any Group 1 in Europe…its a seriously important race for Breeders as the best Horses nearly always go there.Dont forget they sent Oulja Board to win the race aswell as Fantastic Light Falbrav Motiovator etc etc. The best horses run there.
John Oxx has absoutely no interest in winning the Leger…none what so ever.
He wont race in Japan because the owners have no interest in racing a horse in December after a been working since Early March.
Its quite simple where STS goes…he goes to the races that are the most valuable in terms Breeding….He will probaly miss the Newmarket Champion Stakes as the race hasn’t attracted field of the high quality…the recent winners are horses that didnt have the class or bottle to go for the arc.
Breeders Cup Classic is the other race there looking for….are hugely important for the Stallion Book.
In terms of Fee well it doesn’t matter if he loses or not as he can command a very high stud fee.
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