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Best since Dancing Brave? Is he really better than the likes of Dubai Millenium, Generous, Pientre Celebre, Reference Point, Celtic Swing, Daylami, Sinddar, Galileo, High Chaparral, Hawk Wing (!), Zarkava?
You can add Montjeu and Nashwan as well.
I think versatility’s an extremely important attribute. The only horses there who won Group 1s over 8f, 10f and 12f as a 3yo or older horse are Dancing Brave, Nashwan and Zarkava. Personally I think those 3 plus Sea The Stars completely deserve to be called the best 4 horses of the past 25 years.
To compare those 4 is ridiculously harsh, not to mention difficult.
I think a lot will depend if Sea The Stars wins his next race. If he does, then I’d say he’s a serious contender to be the best since Dancing Brave.
Peintre Celebre, Dubai Millennium, Nashwan and Zarkava were tough nuts … but the former and latter were both impressive Arc winners. Mind you, in an alternative 2008 Arc, I’d loved to have seen how Zarkava would’ve coped with Peeping Fawn and Montmartre
Cormack, I may be a tweed-sporting, twig-muncher, but even I can see the abberation in
including
Celtic Swing, and
excluding
Montjeu, in a list of potential threats to Sea The Stars.
Have you been on the hooch all day, you Norvern maaankey?
Without doubt the best 3yo colt ever seen in the new Millenium.
His Leopardstown win was far better than his York run and must now run in the Arc to cemet his place in history.
I am still amazed that they did not consider the Leger as he has wins at 10f which people think is the ideal championship distance and Conduit has struggled to get that elusive win over 10f where as STS could easily do it.
While it is a shame that he will probably be retired to go off bonking for the next 20 odd years he is the ideal horse that people look up to in times of financial hardship and depression.
Phar Lap did it for the Aussies,Seabiscuit for the Yanks and now See The Stars for Ireland and Britain.
A top class 3yo the like of which will not be seen for a while.
I should add that while I think Nashwan, Dancing Brave, Zarkava and Sea The Stars are the best 4 of the past 25 years, that doesn’t necessary mean I think they are the best at a certain distance.
For example, personally I think Montjeu over 12f would have beaten any of them. I just think his King George is one of the most stunning things ever seen on a racecourse.
But over 8f or 10f, they’d have beaten him.
I’d actually quite like Yeats to be included on Corm’s original list if he’s taking requests.
Montjeu is the
only
Flat horse of the last 15 years to have
remotely
piqued my interest. That said, I still don’t know where he stands amongst the Flat ‘greats’.
PS. Did I imagine it at the time, or did he nut Mrs Magnier flush in the coupon, after he won his Arc?
Phar Lap did it for the Aussies,Seabiscuit for the Yanks and now See The Stars for Ireland and Britain.
We only had to wait 70 years then…
The true legends are the ones that can win at practically any distance : Nashwan, Nijinsky, Brigadier Gerard, Mill Reef, Dancing Brave, Zarkava Sea The Stars has to be bracketted with them.
On narrowing it down you can argue :
Nashwan – Beat nothing really, that years crop were pretty awful.
Zarkava – Only once took on the older horses and colts. Ok she beat them well but its evidence of only one race..
The others there’s no real argument over their status.
Sea The Stars has beaten wonderful horses. As already mentioned if he weren’t around Fame And Glory would be seen as a worldbeater – Derby winner, Irish Derby winner, Irish Champion winner.
I find it difficult to NOT list Sea The Stars among the true greats now.
Finally a good reason to buy a camera! Fingers crossed they’ll run him in the Arc and we’ll get a chance to see him before he retires.
Awesome and beautiful.
- Total Posts 17716
Depends on how you want to look at it. Sea the Stars has won everything put in front of him and achieved more than them.
Would some of those at the top of their form have beaten him. I would have to say yes but were they as consistent then the answer is no.
Greatness comes in all shapes and forms. Shergar was one of the greatest Derby winners of all time…….can you really imagine any of those also rans concerned in this years Derby getting anywhere near him?. Put it anotherway can you imagine Sea the Stars winning a Derby by 12 lengths further than he actually did?.
Personally I find that hard to imagine…….
Zarkava never achieved what he did but she won the Arc without as much as a straw being thrown at her to instantly accelerate past everything she was hailed the greatest filly in 20 years. I doubt if Fame and Glory would have blown wind up her backside..she would have eaten him alive just as easily as Sea the Stars did. She I would say had a lot more toe than Sea the Stars and the fact she never felt the whip in her life swings me in her favour……..all the bullshit about she only beta Youzmain is eactly that she was always ridden to beat what was in front of her and it wasn’t the 3 lengths she won by it was hat plus the gound she left behind her that made her so great
If I had to pick a flaw, if you excuse me calling it that, in Sea the Stars it would be his inabilty to utterly destroy good fields, like Sea Bird II who cruised past one of the best fields ever assembled on a race track when he won the Arc without breaking sweat or as Shergar did in the Derby or Mill Reef did when he won in France by 15 lengths and saved Jim McGraths career……
He deserves every bit of praise he gets and although some of those mentioned may have beat him at their peak he has done more than any horse since Nashwan……..Now he wins the Arc he’ll have have an ever better record, one of the best of all time
Finally a good reason to buy a camera! Fingers crossed they’ll run him in the Arc and we’ll get a chance to see him before he retires.
Awesome and beautiful.
Absolutely agree – let’s hope Paris stays relatively dry, weather wise, for the next four weeks.
Montjeu is the
only
Flat horse of the last 15 years to have
remotely
piqued my interest. That said, I still don’t know where he stands amongst the Flat ‘greats’.
PS. Did I imagine it at the time, or did he nut Mrs Magnier flush in the coupon, after he won his Arc?
Think it was Mrs Tabor who had her incisors realigned. A ‘love tap’ to quote Mr T
Yep Montjeu was the beau ideal of the middle-distance Flat TB
As for Sea The Stars, well his presence at York was responsible for adding £25 to the gate receipts and a fine looking lanky snake-hipped youth he is.
Neil Watson’s emphasis on his age:
Without doubt the best 3yo colt ever seen in the new Millenium.
A top class 3yo the like of which will not be seen for a while.
Is well made. Sincerely hope he remains in training as a 4yo, which given the nature of his his rather endearing owner is a distinct possibility.
These eternal ‘best since’ questions are guaranteed to draw a huge response of ‘yes he is’ ‘no he isn’t’ ‘what did he beat’ and while it’s all jolly good fun are about as relevant as asking ‘was Newton the best mathematician since Archimedes?’
STS has been responsible for re-kindling my interest in the Flat this year by winning the 2000Gns, Derby, Eclipse, International and Irish Champion. Great stuff, thanks, leave it at that.
The Arc next? yes please
Yes, Montjeu would have to figure. Celtic Swing actually ranks higher than either Montjeu or Nashwan on Timeform’s all time list. Interesting reading that list and here it is –
<a href="
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeform_r … at_Courses“>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeform_r … at_CoursesYes, Montjeu would have to figure. Celtic Swing actually ranks higher than either Montjeu or Nashwan on Timeform’s all time list. Interesting reading that list and here it is –
<a href="http://
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeform_r … at_Courses“>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeform_r … at_CoursesAbsurd!!
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